News:

And we're back!

Main Menu

Simulation Hypothesis

Started by Caliga, July 20, 2009, 10:41:40 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

Which of the following statements are most likely to be true?

Almost no civilization will reach a level of technological maturity capable of producing simulated realities.
4 (30.8%)
Almost no civilization reaching aforementioned technological status will produce a simulated reality, for any of a number of reasons, such as diversion of computational processing power for other tasks, ethical considerations of holding entities captive i
5 (38.5%)
Almost all entities with our general set of experiences are living in a simulation.
4 (30.8%)

Total Members Voted: 13

Caliga

Source article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simulation_hypothesis

I found this to be fascinating.  Basically, the idea is that if a technologically advanced civilization was able to create a simulation of an entire reality (i.e. like in the Matrix), then that simulation is likely to eventually be able to create one or more subordinate full-reality simulations, which themselves are likely to create child full-reality simulations, etc. at an exponential growth rate.  Therefore, any self-aware being is far, far more likely to be in fact a simulated construct than an intelligent biological organism.  :bowler:
0 Ed Anger Disapproval Points

Viking

So, I find a simple civilisation on another planet and wish to exploit them. Why should I bother to do so when A) killing them all B) building robots to replace their labour would be easier?
First Maxim - "There are only two amounts, too few and enough."
First Corollary - "You cannot have too many soldiers, only too few supplies."
Second Maxim - "Be willing to exchange a bad idea for a good one."
Second Corollary - "You can only be wrong or agree with me."

A terrorist which starts a slaughter quoting Locke, Burke and Mill has completely missed the point.
The fact remains that the only person or group to applaud the Norway massacre are random Islamists.

Caliga

 :huh: This doesn't really have anything to do with alien civilizations at all.  It's more like this:

Future Spellus decides to construct an artificial reality simulation set during the Byzantine Empire he can observe for fun, or to try to test some hypothesis, or whatever.  Future Spellus doesn't set any limits on the sim and just lets it run on infinitely, which it does.  The Simulated Byzantines eventually evolve to a technological level far in advance of that of present-day earth, and begin setting up their own reality simulations, which are basically sub-simulations since, unbeknownst to them, the Simulated Byzantines themselves are sims.  Eventually, some or all of these sub-simulations set up their own sub-simulations, and the process continues with the occurrence of simulated realities growing exponentially.
0 Ed Anger Disapproval Points

Valmy

Quote from: Caliga on July 20, 2009, 10:48:12 AM
:huh: This doesn't really have anything to do with alien civilizations at all.  It's more like this:

Future Spellus decides to construct an artificial reality simulation set during the Byzantine Empire he can observe for fun, or to try to test some hypothesis, or whatever.  Future Spellus doesn't set any limits on the sim and just lets it run on infinitely, which it does.  The Simulated Byzantines eventually evolve to a technological level far in advance of that of present-day earth, and begin setting up their own reality simulations, which are basically sub-simulations since, unbeknownst to them, the Simulated Byzantines themselves are sims.  Eventually, some or all of these sub-simulations set up their own sub-simulations, and the process continues with the occurrence of simulated realities growing exponentially.

This sounds like that Bjork video where they keep having plays within plays.
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

Viking

Quote from: Caliga on July 20, 2009, 10:48:12 AM
:huh: This doesn't really have anything to do with alien civilizations at all.  It's more like this:

Future Spellus decides to construct an artificial reality simulation set during the Byzantine Empire he can observe for fun, or to try to test some hypothesis, or whatever.  Future Spellus doesn't set any limits on the sim and just lets it run on infinitely, which it does.  The Simulated Byzantines eventually evolve to a technological level far in advance of that of present-day earth, and begin setting up their own reality simulations, which are basically sub-simulations since, unbeknownst to them, the Simulated Byzantines themselves are sims.  Eventually, some or all of these sub-simulations set up their own sub-simulations, and the process continues with the occurrence of simulated realities growing exponentially.

So what you are getting at is not The Matrix, but rather The Sims?
First Maxim - "There are only two amounts, too few and enough."
First Corollary - "You cannot have too many soldiers, only too few supplies."
Second Maxim - "Be willing to exchange a bad idea for a good one."
Second Corollary - "You can only be wrong or agree with me."

A terrorist which starts a slaughter quoting Locke, Burke and Mill has completely missed the point.
The fact remains that the only person or group to applaud the Norway massacre are random Islamists.

Caliga

Actually yeah, I guess The Sims is a much better analogy.
0 Ed Anger Disapproval Points

Barrister

Where's the "Who Gives A Fuck" answer?

If you can create a simulated reality that is absolutely indistinguishable from reality it is, well, real.
Posts here are my own private opinions.  I do not speak for my employer.

Valmy

This also reminds me of that quote from Alpha Centauri:

QuoteWe are all aware that the senses can be deceived, the eyes fooled. But how can we be sure our senses are not being deceived at any particular time, or even all the time? Might I just be a brain in a tank somewhere, tricked all my life into believing in the events of this world by some insane computer? And does my life gain or lose meaning based on my reaction to such solipsism?

-Project PYRRHO, Specimen 46, Vat 7 (Subject termination advised)
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

Ed Anger

Stay Alive...Let the Man Drive

jimmy olsen

Quote from: Barrister on July 20, 2009, 10:56:21 AM
Where's the "Who Gives A Fuck" answer?

If you can create a simulated reality that is absolutely indistinguishable from reality it is, well, real.
But would that make Spellus a god? And if so should you worship him?
It is far better for the truth to tear my flesh to pieces, then for my soul to wander through darkness in eternal damnation.

Jet: So what kind of woman is she? What's Julia like?
Faye: Ordinary. The kind of beautiful, dangerous ordinary that you just can't leave alone.
Jet: I see.
Faye: Like an angel from the underworld. Or a devil from Paradise.
--------------------------------------------
1 Karma Chameleon point

Caliga

Quote from: Barrister on July 20, 2009, 10:56:21 AM
Where's the "Who Gives A Fuck" answer?

If you can create a simulated reality that is absolutely indistinguishable from reality it is, well, real.
I think that is only partly correct.  In a simulated reality, I suppose an external operator could simply change some of the rules of the simulation at a whim... he could, for example, reverse gravity or make time flow in reverse.  In a 'real' reality, I would think that the laws of physics, etc. are basically unchanging.

Perhaps the external operator is who some people refer to as 'God'.  I guess in a sense Marti is the God of his session of The Sims.  :)
0 Ed Anger Disapproval Points

Caliga

Quote from: Valmy on July 20, 2009, 10:57:36 AM
This also reminds me of that quote from Alpha Centauri:

QuoteWe are all aware that the senses can be deceived, the eyes fooled. But how can we be sure our senses are not being deceived at any particular time, or even all the time? Might I just be a brain in a tank somewhere, tricked all my life into believing in the events of this world by some insane computer? And does my life gain or lose meaning based on my reaction to such solipsism?

-Project PYRRHO, Specimen 46, Vat 7 (Subject termination advised)
That is basically an updated quote from Rene Descartes--which you might have known, but I'm just pointing it out.
0 Ed Anger Disapproval Points

PDH

The problem with reality is that it could just be made up.
I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.
-Umberto Eco

-------
"I'm pretty sure my level of depression has nothing to do with how much of a fucking asshole you are."

-CdM

Neil

At some point, there has to be some hardware running the simulation.  Eventually, you're going to run out of processing power, even if the original civilization is willing to pour all their resources into such a simulation, which they of course would not be.

Thus, the correct answer is that this is a bunch of nonsense dreamed up by a bunch of philosophy majors who were watching the Matrix after they got off their shifts at Starbucks.  Or maybe Reboot.  Whatever.  The point is that they're stupid, and should weep at their own goofiness.
I do not hate you, nor do I love you, but you are made out of atoms which I can use for something else.

swallow

Heh, and what if, by some Kirk quark quirk of the space time continuum the sub sub sub.... sim was programming the first programmer  :P