JK Rowling reveals she is survivor of domestic abuse and sexual assault

[Sophie Scholl]

I can absolutely guarantee that there are significant numbers of high school boys that would be willing to claim they are trans women if it allows them to go into the girls' locker room and see their female classmate naked.

Aside from your assertion that it is true, do you have any actual evidence of such a case happening? A dozen? A hundred? Thousands? If it is not illegal currently to do so in places and there are "significant numbers of high school boys" who would engage in such an act, there must be mounds of evidence and a plethora of examples to showcase. I look forward to reading through your damning evidence and examples. 

[merithyn]

It wouldn't bother me at all. I just don't care. My daughter is only 21, so barely out of her teen years. She doesn't care, either.

Great. 

It's not about "did they use the right bathroom?". It's about "are they going to leer/attack me?" The complete lack of that happening now says there isn't anyone doing that kind of thing. Like garbon says, there are zero laws in place right now regarding who is allowed to use which bathroom. It's just not a thing. It only became a thing when people got pissy about transfolk.

Well the bathroom, I see as a non issue.  We have doors for "intimacy"; well, occidental countries do, at least.  The changing room is a little different.
You haven't answered that part directly: do you think the majority of women would be fine with a man changing beside them while they are nude and would they feel as threatened as by taking an elevator alone with an unknown man, or having a random man walking behind them on the street at night?

I'm probably the last person to ask that question. I've had five babies. I've also had a ton of "female issues" that means that I've been naked and spread eagle under the gaze of more than my fair share of doctors, nearly all male. Being naked in front of strangers - even men - doesn't bother me at all. Oh, I was also a nude model in college. So yeah, not a big thing for me. So long as they aren't leering, I'm not even going to notice them.

And honestly, that applies to your scenario in the elevator. Being alone in an elevator with a man doesn't bother me that much, so long as he's not being weird about it. Now, the guy on the street... I'm going to let him pass me. Because that's just smart. If either were dressed as women, on the other hand, they are women in my mind and there's no threat.

[Sheilbh]

https://medium.com/@KatyMontgomerie/addressing-the-claims-in-jk-rowlings-justification-for-transphobia-7b6f761e8f8f

As I pointed out in my last piece; in the UK — where both JKR and I live — trans women have used women's spaces longer than either of us have been alive, and have been legally protected to do so since 2010 (before that there was no clear law either way, though there were some protections for trans people, it has never been illegal). A Gender Recognition Certificate is not necessary to use women's spaces and it never has been, in fact using women's spaces for some time is required to obtain a GRC! If there was going to be a problem the moment that people were allowed into the facility they know is best for them then it would have already happened. It hasn't. All of the problems GC people propose with "Self ID" are always hypothetical, if it was going to happen, why hasn't it been happening for over a decade?

This is one of the most worrying pieces of misinformation put forward by her and by the GC movement as a whole. I, and many British trans people, are living in fear that the UK government is building up to trying to ban us from using public facilities. The reason they are claiming that trans women don't already use women's facilities is so they can frame taking away the rights trans people have today as "defending women's rights". Where do you think trans women have been weeing for the last 50 years?

Yep. To get a GRC is a medical-legal process at the minute and you have to have evidence that you have lived in your acquired gender for the past two years (continuously). Evidence that you didn't could count against you and cause your application for a GRC to be turned down.

[viper37]

I'm probably the last person to ask that question. I've had five babies. I've also had a ton of "female issues" that means that I've been naked and spread eagle under the gaze of more than my fair share of doctors, nearly all male. Being naked in front of strangers - even men - doesn't bother me at all. Oh, I was also a nude model in college. So yeah, not a big thing for me. So long as they aren't leering, I'm not even going to notice them.

Well, the doc, it's one thing.  The rest... ok, you had a wildside I totally knew nothing about

And honestly, that applies to your scenario in the elevator. Being alone in an elevator with a man doesn't bother me that much, so long as he's not being weird about it. Now, the guy on the street... I'm going to let him pass me. Because that's just smart. If either were dressed as women, on the other hand, they are women in my mind and there's no threat.

But lots of women will say they're nervous when alone in an elevator with a stranger.
As for the street, I still think it's an insulting behaviour toward the man who happens to walk behind you and is not specifically following you and eventually, a self defeating attitude more likely to attract the attention of a real predator.

But that's just me.

In any case.  I'm not the one concerned, so if most women are fine with it, I'm ok with it.  It's something that really has to be judged by public reactions.

I think Sweden has unisex changing rooms and it works out ok for them.  Trans bathroom stuff must not be much of a political issue over there

[The Brain]

My impression is that unisex changing rooms (for more than one person) are very rare in Sweden.

[grumbler]

I can absolutely guarantee that there are significant numbers of high school boys that would be willing to claim they are trans women if it allows them to go into the girls' locker room and see their female classmate naked.

Aside from your assertion that it is true, do you have any actual evidence of such a case happening? A dozen? A hundred? Thousands? If it is not illegal currently to do so in places and there are "significant numbers of high school boys" who would engage in such an act, there must be mounds of evidence and a plethora of examples to showcase. I look forward to reading through your damning evidence and examples. 

I bolded the part that makes the rest of your statement null and void.  I know of nowhere where that would be legal, and have only the self-serving claims of two non-legal-scholars to indicate that it is perfectly legal for boys to enter the girls' locker rooms in the UK and Oregon.  I'm willing to bet that those places have trespass laws as well.

[garbon]

It would be weird if all those female cleaners I've seen in men's rooms in the UK were doing something illegal.

[Eddie Teach]

Just how much time do you spend in public restrooms?

[garbon]

Just how much time do you spend in public restrooms?

Not like that, dear.

[The Brain]

It would be weird if all those female cleaners I've seen in men's rooms in the UK were doing something illegal.

Like gunpowder plotting?

[merithyn]

I can absolutely guarantee that there are significant numbers of high school boys that would be willing to claim they are trans women if it allows them to go into the girls' locker room and see their female classmate naked.

Aside from your assertion that it is true, do you have any actual evidence of such a case happening? A dozen? A hundred? Thousands? If it is not illegal currently to do so in places and there are "significant numbers of high school boys" who would engage in such an act, there must be mounds of evidence and a plethora of examples to showcase. I look forward to reading through your damning evidence and examples. 

I bolded the part that makes the rest of your statement null and void.  I know of nowhere where that would be legal, and have only the self-serving claims of two non-legal-scholars to indicate that it is perfectly legal for boys to enter the girls' locker rooms in the UK and Oregon.  I'm willing to bet that those places have trespass laws as well.

Yes. Looking up laws online requires a law degree. I think you're confusing "legal" with "against the rules".

[Sophie Scholl]

As meri said, illegal is not the same as against the rules and against what you want. Here's an additional piece for you to ignore to maintain your pride and position that lists a whole host of things Rowling has said in regards to trans individuals. Maybe someone else will read it and take something away from it. I don't hold out much hope though.
https://medium.com/@KatyMontgomerie/addressing-the-claims-in-jk-rowlings-justification-for-transphobia-7b6f761e8f8f

[grumbler]

It would be weird if all those female cleaners I've seen in men's rooms in the UK were doing something illegal.

Yeah, it would be weird if people hired to be somewhere were trespassing there.  Maybe the answer, though, is that they aren't trespassing. 

The same applies to trans women, of course; they are not trespassing in the women's rooms either.  Men are, though, because that's what the owners of the restrooms marked "women" are conveying with the sign.  That's kinda how trespass works.

[grumbler]

Yes. Looking up laws online requires a law degree. I think you're confusing "legal" with "against the rules".

  I think that you somehow believe that laws are not rules.  I have no idea what you mean by "against the rules" in this context.  Whose rules?

I am distinguishing between trespass (which I believe keeps men out of women's locker rooms) and magic (which, apparently, you believe keeps men out of women's locker rooms).  If you can show me that there is no trespass in Oregon when men enter women's locker rooms (except as employees or after hours), and that men don't enter anyway, then I'll believe it.  I'm unlikely to take the word of someone who thinks the problem is solved because it's merely "against the rules."

[garbon]

It would be weird if all those female cleaners I've seen in men's rooms in the UK were doing something illegal.

Yeah, it would be weird if people hired to be somewhere were trespassing there.  Maybe the answer, though, is that they aren't trespassing. 

The same applies to trans women, of course; they are not trespassing in the women's rooms either.  Men are, though, because that's what the owners of the restrooms marked "women" are conveying with the sign.  That's kinda how trespass works.

But that's the rub. The existence of the signs don't mean the owners are going to pursue trespassing charges.

They have indicated a women's restroom and a men's restroom but not that it will be illegal to enter one of the other gender. After all, some clearly let their employees go in opposite restrooms.

So isn't it really down to whether or not you have been ordered not to do so? Down to the discretion of the owner?

Which is then the precarious choices that transpeople face. Do I use the bathroom that fits my gender with the concern that I'll be considered trespassing?

Rowling would then have that made even more difficult for such individuals despite providing no evidence that restrictions are necessary.