UK extends visa rights to 3 million Hong Kongers

[The Brain]

I stand by to be drained by an 18 y/o Mainland chick.

[Monoriu]

I don't understand the idea of brain drain.  That might work in the 90s but not now.  Hong Kongers had, in the Greater China context, unique skills like finance, trading etc back then.  But that's no longer true.  Some of the western investment banks in Hong Kong don't hire any HKers anymore.  Their Chinese employees all speak Mandarin and come from the Mainland.  They will get better people picking the best from a 1.4 billion pool than a 7 million pool.  Their Mainland employers are better educated, more connected, have a better understanding of Mainland culture, etc.  Hong Kongers don't have bargaining power any more without protectionist measures from the HK government, and that's one of the fundamental reasons of the unhappiness.  Hong Kongers who leave for the West can easily be replaced by better Mainland workers, and there is a long list of people who want to come.

We're happy to drain mainland brains as well.

Well first of all, losing a few million people isn't a big deal to a country with 1.4 billion people.  Secondly, a lot of western educated Mainlanders with western citizenship choose to live and work on the Mainland, simply because the financial rewards are better.  People won't be drained so easily just because the west give them citizenship.  In fact I saw a lot of westerners living on the Mainland as well, so I am not sure who is draining who

[Habbaku]

It's definitely China losing: https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/CHN/china/net-migration

[Josquius]

I don't understand the idea of brain drain.  That might work in the 90s but not now.  Hong Kongers had, in the Greater China context, unique skills like finance, trading etc back then.  But that's no longer true.  Some of the western investment banks in Hong Kong don't hire any HKers anymore.  Their Chinese employees all speak Mandarin and come from the Mainland.  They will get better people picking the best from a 1.4 billion pool than a 7 million pool.  Their Mainland employers are better educated, more connected, have a better understanding of Mainland culture, etc.  Hong Kongers don't have bargaining power any more without protectionist measures from the HK government, and that's one of the fundamental reasons of the unhappiness.  Hong Kongers who leave for the West can easily be replaced by better Mainland workers, and there is a long list of people who want to come.

We're happy to drain mainland brains as well.

Well first of all, losing a few million people isn't a big deal to a country with 1.4 billion people.  Secondly, a lot of western educated Mainlanders with western citizenship choose to live and work on the Mainland, simply because the financial rewards are better.  People won't be drained so easily just because the west give them citizenship.  In fact I saw a lot of westerners living on the Mainland as well, so I am not sure who is draining who

We get your doctors, scientists, and other top people

You take our recent graduates who want a few years out and those who've decided to drop out of society to spend their life herding other peoples children and trying to get laid.
Fair deal.

[Razgovory]

We should do the same for them in the USA. Let them pick an Anglo nation to high-tail it to.

God, I wish we would.  Of course, in a few years we might be the fleeing refugees.

[HisMajestyBOB]

I don't understand the idea of brain drain.  That might work in the 90s but not now.  Hong Kongers had, in the Greater China context, unique skills like finance, trading etc back then.  But that's no longer true.  Some of the western investment banks in Hong Kong don't hire any HKers anymore.  Their Chinese employees all speak Mandarin and come from the Mainland.  They will get better people picking the best from a 1.4 billion pool than a 7 million pool.  Their Mainland employers are better educated, more connected, have a better understanding of Mainland culture, etc.  Hong Kongers don't have bargaining power any more without protectionist measures from the HK government, and that's one of the fundamental reasons of the unhappiness.  Hong Kongers who leave for the West can easily be replaced by better Mainland workers, and there is a long list of people who want to come.

We're happy to drain mainland brains as well.

Well first of all, losing a few million people isn't a big deal to a country with 1.4 billion people.  Secondly, a lot of western educated Mainlanders with western citizenship choose to live and work on the Mainland, simply because the financial rewards are better.  People won't be drained so easily just because the west give them citizenship.  In fact I saw a lot of westerners living on the Mainland as well, so I am not sure who is draining who

We get your doctors, scientists, and other top people

You take our recent graduates who want a few years out and those who've decided to drop out of society to spend their life herding other peoples children and trying to get laid.
Fair deal.

Hey, I eventually came back. 

[grumbler]

Hey, I eventually came back. 

Taking you back wasn't part of the deal.  We was robbed.

[viper37]

I don't understand the idea of brain drain.  That might work in the 90s but not now.  Hong Kongers had, in the Greater China context, unique skills like finance, trading etc back then.  But that's no longer true. 

So, Hkers no longer have brains?

[Monoriu]

I don't understand the idea of brain drain.  That might work in the 90s but not now.  Hong Kongers had, in the Greater China context, unique skills like finance, trading etc back then.  But that's no longer true. 

So, Hkers no longer have brains?

Hong Kong's success is, to a large extent, attributable to crazy policies on the Mainland like the Great Leap Forward and the Cultural Revolution etc.  Those policies made the Mainlanders lose their brains.  So HKers were the only ones left with them.  Once the crazy policies were removed and the Mainlanders got their brains back, there was nothing really that special about HK brains. 

[Zoupa]

I don't understand the idea of brain drain.  That might work in the 90s but not now.  Hong Kongers had, in the Greater China context, unique skills like finance, trading etc back then.  But that's no longer true. 

So, Hkers no longer have brains?

Hong Kong's success is, to a large extent, attributable to crazy policies on the Mainland like the Great Leap Forward and the Cultural Revolution etc.  Those policies made the Mainlanders lose their brains.  So HKers were the only ones left with them.  Once the crazy policies were removed and the Mainlanders got their brains back, there was nothing really that special about HK brains.

Quoted for posterity. Enjoy the camps!

[Monoriu]

I am staying in Hong Kong 

[Zoupa]

Not once the commies find your post 

[Tamas]

I am staying in Hong Kong 

Well you are actively cheering on the work of removing any distinction between the mainland and Hong Kong, so that's not really relevant.

[11B4V]

Been discussed elsewhere but this is excellent news and the right thing to do - rare I get to say that about British politics

UK widens visa rights offer to almost 3m Hong Kong residents
Home Office clarifies pledge and sets government on collision course with China


There are estimated to be about 2.9m people eligible to apply for a BNO passport living in Hong Kong © AP
Laura Hughes in London and Yuan Yang in Beijing 2 HOURS AGO

The UK has set itself on a collision course with China after broadening its offer on extended visa rights from 350,000 to almost 3m Hong Kong residents.

After Beijing announced plans this week to proceed with the imposition of a national security law on Hong Kong, UK foreign secretary Dominic Raab retaliated with an "unprecedented" pledge to expand visa rights for British National (Overseas) passport holders in Hong Kong from six to 12 months and "provide a pathway to future citizenship".

About 350,000 people hold valid BNO passports, a document issued to Hong Kong residents born before the handover of the territory from UK to Chinese sovereignty in 1997.

However, the Home Office clarified on Friday that the pledge to extend visa rights would apply to anyone eligible to apply for a BNO passport currently living in Hong Kong, of which there are estimated to be about 2.9m. Most of the additional 2.55m people have held a BNO passport in the past but not renewed it.

The move was made because "the new security law will undermine the existing legal commitments to protect the rights of Hong Kong people", the Home Office said. It is symbolic of the UK prime minister Boris Johnson's new willingness to adopt a tougher stance towards Beijing.

With increasing concerns that Beijing did not disclose the initial scale of the coronavirus outbreak, Mr Johnson is under pressure from his own backbench MPs to reset relations with Beijing.

The latest display of defiance against China comes after Mr Raab announced an end to "business as usual" and the government started drawing up plans to force a full phase-out of the Chinese telecoms equipment maker Huawei from Britain's 5G networks within three years.

China on Friday hit back at the UK's pledge to extend visa rights, arguing that the two countries had previously agreed a memorandum stating that the UK would not give Hong Kong BNO passport holders right of residency.

It has argued the agreement was reached alongside the 1984 Joint Declaration, which established the "one country, two systems" arrangement that guarantees Hong Kong a level of autonomy.

"All of our Hong Kong Chinese compatriots are Chinese citizens," said foreign ministry spokesperson Zhao Lijian on Friday. He threatened that if the "UK unilaterally changes its approach" on the matter of British Nationals (Overseas), China would "resolutely oppose" and "reserve the right to use appropriate countermeasures".

Peter Goldsmith, a former attorney-general, advised ministers earlier this year that granting BNOs the right to live in the UK would not breach the Joint Declaration.

Rana Mitter, director of the University of Oxford China Centre, said the offer to BNOs signalled a response "to something the Chinese government has been saying over the last few years, which is that some aspects of the Joint Declaration don't really apply".

He said: "In some sense this potential move could be a statement that if China is not willing to accept that all aspects of the Joint Declaration are valid, then the UK feels that it too can look at aspects of it and decide where it wants to alter things. That may be part of the logic behind this particular move."

Prof Mitter added that the threat of offering visa extensions and a path to potential citizenship would be "particularity worrying" for the Chinese government if large numbers of wealth creators connected to the business community decided they wanted to take up the offer and become resident in London.

"That would be really problematic for the [Chinese] government", he said. "It would be an international sign of lack of confidence in Hong Kong and harm its status as an international business centre."

Cui Hongjian, head of European Studies at the China Institute of International Studies, a foreign ministry think-tank, said the BNO pledge would have a "negative" effect on the mutual trust between China and the UK but that it was more of a "political and diplomatic gesture".

China was prepared for "this negative reaction and will not retreat", added Cheng Xiaohe, deputy director of Renmin university's Center for China's International Strategic Studies. "But I think China will not treat the countries the same way. China will focus on its main target, the 'Big Brother' — the US."

Hopefully we also clarify the rights of family members of BNO citizens. But I am very happy with this escape route for many Hong Kongers and can't wait to welcome any move over

It is also a fairly extraordinary moment that we're proposing (if China proceeds) to just extend residence rights to 3 million people, with total cross-party support and almost no opposition. Obviously it is also morally and legally the right thing to do as China tramples all over the Joint Declaration.

Good job UK.

[Admiral Yi]

Cut that out Before.