UK extends visa rights to 3 million Hong Kongers

[Admiral Yi]

I still think that way.  Much better for unhappy people to leave.  That's the long-term fix to HK's problem.  There are lots of rich, skilled, obedient Mainlanders who are happy to come to HK, so we aren't losing much.

Beijing just said it disagrees with you.

[Monoriu]

I still think that way.  Much better for unhappy people to leave.  That's the long-term fix to HK's problem.  There are lots of rich, skilled, obedient Mainlanders who are happy to come to HK, so we aren't losing much.

Beijing just said it disagrees with you.

So it disagrees with me.  It isn't like the Chinese ambassador to the UK can stop people from leaving.  On an anecdotal basis, I hear lots of people are considering leaving, for different reasons.  Insane housing prices, poor living conditions, the national security law, no democracy, don't want their children to become rioters, etc etc.   

I mean if you are a homeowner in HK, your flat is worth quite a lot.  The thinking is, just sell it and move to somewhere cheap and have a good life.  Like Canada. 

[Admiral Yi]

So it disagrees with me.  It isn't like the Chinese ambassador to the UK can stop people from leaving.  On an anecdotal basis, I hear lots of people are considering leaving, for different reasons.  Insane housing prices, poor living conditions, the national security law, no democracy, don't want their children to become rioters, etc etc.

Beijing can very easily stop anyone from leaving HK.

[Sheilbh]

Oh and, like I have said before, do you really want to go through with this? 

Yeah

Although I think you're right. I think China will bluster and quietly let a lot of trouble-makers go. But as I say I hope we work to go futher on Hong Kong but also more widely to begin to disentangle our economies.

Interestingly an international working group of Parliamentarians have just launched in different countries (UK, US, Germany, Sweden, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, European Parliament, Norway) from left and right (GOP, Dems, Tories, Labour, Greens, Liberals etc) to focus on this sort of issue.

[Monoriu]

So it disagrees with me.  It isn't like the Chinese ambassador to the UK can stop people from leaving.  On an anecdotal basis, I hear lots of people are considering leaving, for different reasons.  Insane housing prices, poor living conditions, the national security law, no democracy, don't want their children to become rioters, etc etc.

Beijing can very easily stop anyone from leaving HK.

Not really.  There are costs to political moves.  The national security law already cost a lot in terms of diplomatic fallout, lost of investor confidence, etc.  Not letting people go would be a hundred times worse. 

[Habbaku]

I find it laughable that Beijing is warning of consequences and whining over Britain taking counter-action against China's breach of their treaty.

[Monoriu]

There is increasing talk among pro-Beijing heavyweights that, anyone who accepts Boris Johnson's BNO offer will lose their HK citizenship, residency and voting rights. 

[Habbaku]

There is increasing talk among pro-Beijing heavyweights that, anyone who accepts Boris Johnson's BNO offer will lose their HK citizenship, residency and voting rights.

"You can't leave! We're kicking you out!"

[Monoriu]

If true, that is going to have a pretty significant effect.

Millions of people in HK have citizenship in other places, including me.  Generally, people want to have the best of both worlds.  If you want to make money, to climb the career ladder, more opportunities, Hong Kong is the place.  If you want political participation, better living environment, cheaper housing, better welfare, more humane education for your children etc, you want to go to the West.  This is not a binary decision as lots of people move around constantly.  Some people leave their families in Canada and work in Hong Kong.  Or they stay in Hong Kong, make money for a few years, then take a break in Australia for a while.  When money runs out, they come back etc.

If this is allowed, then taking Boris Johnson's offer is an easy decision.  Go grab the passport and residency rights in the UK, then come back to make money.

If moving around is not an option, then this changes the calculus quite a bit.  Then the people who will go to the UK will tend to be retirees, those who can't make money in HK anyway, and those who value democracy above all else. 

[Zoupa]

I don't get the class angle. The 3 million is the people who are already eligible for a British passport (just not a full British passport). They're the people who were there at handover.

Oh is that right?  Then you're good.  Carry on.

To be clear, the colonial subjects and their descendents, right?

Nope. As I say I think family members will be the next big thing. Registration stopped on handover because Hong Kong became part of China and you don't inherit it.

It is worth saying there is a general campaign to get rid of the multiple types of British citizen because that is very much a colonial legacy that increasingly doesn't make sense.

Somewhat related, but in my Canadian passport it says that in case the country I'm in does not have Canadian Consular Services, I'm to show up to the British embassy/consulate.

Which I'd never do of course, Perfide Albion. Hence I always travel with both the Canadian and French passport, as France has imperial outposts consular service everywhere.

[Sheilbh]

Interesting - a poll on allowing Hong Kong British passport holders to live and work in the UK, with a route to citizenship (basically residence for x year - I'm not sure how many). Pretty clear majority support and pretty consistent. Overall 56% support it, 57% of Tories and Labour, 65% of the Lib Dems, 52% of Brexit Party supporters and support across generations too - 59% of old people back it and 52% of young folk.

This is an unusually consistent popular policy. Which is nice because it's something good and moral and I support it. And normally when I see interesting polling about a clear majority of British people supporting thing it's something insanely authoritarian like castrating all sex offenders or sending in the army to enforce social distancing in a park.

[Agelastus]

Good. The policy is only at least 23 years late after all.

We should have done this in 1997.

[Josquius]

Surprised to see even brexit party supporters on the right side in this.

[Sheilbh]

Chair of the Commons Foreign Policy Select Committee making a point I've found weird about China's approach in recent years:

Talking to a lobbyist about Huawei today I was told any change in policy would lead to punishment from Beijing. Interesting.

So we should deepen our dependence on a state that threatens us so that when they threaten us in the future they have more power.

Odd.

Edit: It reminds me of Trump, they keep saying the quiet part out loud.

[Monoriu]

Chair of the Commons Foreign Policy Select Committee making a point I've found weird about China's approach in recent years:

Talking to a lobbyist about Huawei today I was told any change in policy would lead to punishment from Beijing. Interesting.

So we should deepen our dependence on a state that threatens us so that when they threaten us in the future they have more power.

Odd.

Edit: It reminds me of Trump, they keep saying the quiet part out loud.

Well the UK is thinking in political terms.  Beijing is thinking in monetary terms.  This isn't about friend or foe.  This is about making money.  The assumption is, the UK's primary goal is to make money.  Trading with Mainland China is very profitable.  So the UK must be willing to make significant concessions in order to maintain trading relationships with Mainland China. 

This policy works with a lot of people and countries.  Some South East Asian countries, the tycoons in Hong Kong, many African nations, etc.