Covid-19 lockdown check-in

[Barrister]

And that is shitty because?

Because this congressman is the sole source of the story, so you'd think he should be fully identified in the opening of the story, not just in a picture caption.  And party affiliation counts - Democrat means he's with the majority which is important to know, but Republican would be good to know too because it would be a partial break from the Trumpist "America First" language.

[Valmy]

And nowhere does it identify which party he is with (Dem)]

Generally if you represent a Texas-Mexico border community that is a given. Though the gargantuan 23rd district has bucked that trend recently, but that one is kind of designed to get a Republican elected.

[Berkut]

I agree Beebs that this should have been agressively coordinated as a global response. That doesn't mean the US President doesn't place US interest first, but it does mean they recognize that there is no truly "national" solution in isolation.

Of course this was impossible for Trump. Sadly though, the GOP of just a couple decades ago would have been fine with such an approach.

[Sheilbh]

Also - and this is just me saying things that make sense in my head and might not tally with science - once you start vaccinating in a country it makes sense to me that you kind of need to finish pretty quickly. As I say this might be nonsense but it feels to me like the risk of a variant that doesn't respond to the vaccine is highest in a country with say the 20% or so of high risk people vaccinated but then the virus still circulating among the other 80% - or is that wrong?

So as part of any global effort it feels like once shipments start to a country they need to carry on until it's done.

I also think that it's not just Trump's actions that were harmful but his refusal to do any of the normal transition stuff. I know that all the European and American leaders at the Munich conference talked up the need to cooperate on vaccine roll out globally but it feels like we're starting from 0 now, when even once Trump lost we could have started working more closely on this 4-5 months ago if it was a normal transition.

[Barrister]

Also - and this is just me saying things that make sense in my head and might not tally with science - once you start vaccinating in a country it makes sense to me that you kind of need to finish pretty quickly. As I say this might be nonsense but it feels to me like the risk of a variant that doesn't respond to the vaccine is highest in a country with say the 20% or so of high risk people vaccinated but then the virus still circulating among the other 80% - or is that wrong?

So as part of any global effort it feels like once shipments start to a country they need to carry on until it's done.

Two thoughts:

1. I don't think there's any evidence to suggest that the virus is more likely to mutate in lower risk people than higher risk people.  The virus just has a set chance of mutating no matter who it infects.  So, your best use of the vaccine is to go after those with the higher risk of illness / death.

2. EVen if I'm wrong... morally how to do chose which country goes first, and which goes last?  How on earth do you expect the world to come together on a global co-ordinated response, and then start telling certain countries they're at the end of the list.  'Sorry Zambia and Zimbabwe, we're vaccinating alphabetically.  You should get your vaccines starting in March 2022'.

[Valmy]

I think that is right Sheilbh. I mean it is not ideal for anybody to get the virus but once the most at risk people are vaccinated the chances of it killing is so dramatically reduced we can probably open back up which is the ultimate goal.

But then I am not medical expert.

[Valmy]

'Sorry Zambia and Zimbabwe, we're vaccinating alphabetically.  You should get your vaccines starting in March 2022'.

Probably quicker than the actual Zambia and Zimbabwe are going to get it if the countries with the manufacturing are hoarding.

[Sheilbh]

1. I don't think there's any evidence to suggest that the virus is more likely to mutate in lower risk people than higher risk people.  The virus just has a set chance of mutating no matter who it infects.  So, your best use of the vaccine is to go after those with the higher risk of illness / death.

Agreed you should prioritise the high risk people.

My point was more once you start vaccinating, infection will carry on in lower risk people and it's more likely to try and escape the vaccine (because there are also people who are vaccinated in that community). So - and as I say I don't know if this is right from a scientific perspective - wouldn't the highest risk of a variant emerging that escapes the vaccine be if you had a country/community with all the high risk people vaccinated but then no roll-out into lower risk groups? So once you've started you need to finish, you can't just stop at the high risk people even if on a global/macro level there are high risk people in other countries who will still be at risk while you are vaccinating low risk groups - and once Covax starts shipping to Ghana and Cote d'Ivoire etc that supply needs to keep going until those programs are "done".

2. EVen if I'm wrong... morally how to do chose which country goes first, and which goes last?  How on earth do you expect the world to come together on a global co-ordinated response, and then start telling certain countries they're at the end of the list.  'Sorry Zambia and Zimbabwe, we're vaccinating alphabetically.  You should get your vaccines starting in March 2022'.

True - we're currently doing it based on wealth in a semi-coordinated way. You're right though if you were coordinating globally - how do you prioritise? I can see an argument for prioritising Europe and the Americas (counter-intuitively given we always assume a global health problem will primarily be felt in the global south - which isn't the case here) because that's where the most death and transmission are happening. Flipside is there are other populations that face as high risk even if the public health risk is lower, for example African healthcare workers.

I've no idea what would be right and ethical. In my head I think the two key questions would be what has the biggest impact on the number of deaths and what can be done quickest. But, honestly, I don't know if those are the priorities for say the WHO or GAVI.

[Iormlund]

1. I don't think there's any evidence to suggest that the virus is more likely to mutate in lower risk people than higher risk people.  The virus just has a set chance of mutating no matter who it infects.  So, your best use of the vaccine is to go after those with the higher risk of illness / death.

I read that some evidence seems to point at infected who have a somewhat compromised immune system but don't croak for a while. In these patients the virus can reproduce (and thus mutate) for weeks or even months.

[Josquius]

I guess if you're vulnerable the virus just kills you whilst if you've a strongish immune system it lingers a long time and develops ways to get around that?

[Sheilbh]

I read that some evidence seems to point at infected who have a somewhat compromised immune system but don't croak for a while. In these patients the virus can reproduce (and thus mutate) for weeks or even months.

Yeah - I think that's definitely the theory around the UK variant. In particular why it made such a big leap with multiple mutations in one jump.

Minor difference with lockdown last year as I (again ) need physio. This time you can get in-person physio appointments if that's your preference.

[Caliga]

Got my first dose of the Moderna vaccine yesterday.  I had to drive to Frankfort to get it (no appointments available in Louisville), and it was pretty weird because before I got to the place, there was a military checkpoint.   Then once I cleared that, the place was crawling with troops, along with (I guess) public health officials and then the nurses administering the doses.  It was really well organized, though, and I got in and out pretty quickly considering all the people that were there.

The vaccine hits you hard though, man.  I felt fine for a couple of hours after the shot, but eventually my arm started hurting really bad at the injection site... like it was smacked with a 2x4 really.  I was exhausted last night and collapsed on the couch despite having tons of work to do, and this morning I feel like I have a cold and the lymph nodes around my right armpit (arm I got the shot in) are all swollen, and I have a persistent headache and my joints are all achey.

[The Brain]

Maybe you just hit old age, and it's unrelated to the vaccine?

[Caliga]

Maybe you just hit old age, and it's unrelated to the vaccine?

[Admiral Yi]

Got my first dose of the Moderna vaccine yesterday.  I had to drive to Frankfort to get it (no appointments available in Louisville), and it was pretty weird because before I got to the place, there was a military checkpoint.   Then once I cleared that, the place was crawling with troops, along with (I guess) public health officials and then the nurses administering the doses.  It was really well organized, though, and I got in and out pretty quickly considering all the people that were there.

The vaccine hits you hard though, man.  I felt fine for a couple of hours after the shot, but eventually my arm started hurting really bad at the injection site... like it was smacked with a 2x4 really.  I was exhausted last night and collapsed on the couch despite having tons of work to do, and this morning I feel like I have a cold and the lymph nodes around my right armpit (arm I got the shot in) are all swollen, and I have a persistent headache and my joints are all achey.

Did they tell you which brand you got?