Covid-19 lockdown check-in

[merithyn]

I read the data incorrectly. Brazil is at 3% per Johns Hopkins.

https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality

Mexico, however, is at 10%, Italy is at 9.9%, Ecuador is at 8.3%, and the UK is at 6.5%.

Yes, let's do nothing because AR doesn't see the value in doing anything.

[alfred russel]

I read the data incorrectly. Brazil is at 3% per Johns Hopkins.

https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality

Mexico, however, is at 10%, Italy is at 9.9%, Ecuador is at 8.3%, and the UK is at 6.5%.

Yes, let's do nothing because AR doesn't see the value in doing anything.

Meri, those numbers are dependent on how many people you detect with covid. Large numbers of positive cases are not identified.

Deaths as a percent of the population in the countries you just identified:

USA: 0.067%
Brazil: 0.072%
UK: 0.065%
Mexico: 0.067%
Italy: 0.060%
Ecuador: 0.071%

[Tamas]

I had dinner with my son and his fiancé last night. She was telling me this story about her uncle's family.

Last month, he, his wife, their two children, and his mother-in-law all decided to go on vacation to Los Angeles. (They live in Colorado Springs.) They flew there, had a "lovely" vacation, and then headed to the airport to fly home. At the airport, however, when he showed the desk his ID, the counter clerk typed in his name, and immediately went white in the face and hit some button on the counter. He asked why they were there, at the airport, and backed away slowly. Jeff, Jordyn's uncle, was perplexed, and than panicked when they were surrounded by a crowd of people in hazmat suits.

Jeff and his family (including their now terrified 5 and 7 year old children) were ushered to a quarantine room in the basement of the airport and left there. That's when Jeff's mother-in-law said, "I didn't think they meant it." He looked at her and asked what she meant.

Apparently, the day before they were meant to fly out of Colorado Springs, she found out that she'd tested positive for COVID through her regular testing at work. She told no one. While on vacation in LA, the CDC contacted her and asked why she'd left the state with a positive test. They informed her that they were halting all flights for her and her family, and they were to remain in place for 14 days. She completely disregarded this directive, continued on with the vacation, and didn't bother to tell her daughter or Jeff what had happened.

When they were finally released at the airport, they were told that the family was banned from flying for two years per the federal restrictions list, and that they were to remain in quarantine for 14 days. Jeff rented a car (entirely online and without seeing or speaking to anyone), drove the family home (letting the rental agency know that they were COVID-positive when he dropped the car off), and ushered the family into the home to quarantine for two weeks. He told his mother-in-law in no uncertain terms that she was not to go home, as her husband was severely immuno-compromised. She argued, he refused to relent, and even when his wife tried to argue, put his foot down, taking her keys.

The next morning, his mother-in-law was gone, his wife having given her the car keys. Two days later, when Jeff was asleep, his wife went out and taught a Yoga class to 10 students with their 7-year-old daughter, prior to receiving their own COVID results.

Jordyn said that he's right now considering divorce because of how stupid his wife is being/has been about this whole thing.

I don't know that I blame the man.

OMGWTF

[DGuller]

When I saw "Colorado Springs", I could already guess where that was going.  This is what happens when you don't have moral leadership at the top.  Lots of people are marginally stupid, which means that with the right leadership they'll act in a non-stupid way, and with an enabling leadership they'll let their stupidity out in full force.  Putin couldn't have invented a better Manchurian candidate if he tried.

[Sheilbh]

OMGWTF

Agreed

[Maladict]

Jesus Christ

[The Larch]

I really wonder what kind of explanation they gave to act as they did...

[merithyn]

I really wonder what kind of explanation they gave to act as they did...

They being his mother-in-law and wife?

Apparently, they think the whole thing is just like the flu, no big deal, and entirely blown out of proportion. Very similar to AR.

[The Larch]

I really wonder what kind of explanation they gave to act as they did...

They being his mother-in-law and wife?

Apparently, they think the whole thing is just like the flu, no big deal, and entirely blown out of proportion. Very similar to AR.

Yeah, I meant the two culprits. Oh dear...

[alfred russel]

Apparently, they think the whole thing is just like the flu, no big deal, and entirely blown out of proportion. Very similar to AR.

Fuck you Meri.

I've made very clear that I understand covid-19 is worse than the flu. I've specifically mentioned this to you multiple times when you have brought up the lie that I think this is equivalent to the flu, so I know that you are aware of it.

I know it is a tactic that when you can't hold your own in a discussion on the merits, a strategy is to just lie about what the other guy is saying, but it is pretty fucking disgusting.

[Zoupa]

Apparently, they think the whole thing is just like the flu, no big deal, and entirely blown out of proportion. Very similar to AR.

Fuck you Meri.

I've made very clear that I understand covid-19 is worse than the flu. I've specifically mentioned this to you multiple times when you have brought up the lie that I think this is equivalent to the flu, so I know that you are aware of it.

I know it is a tactic that when you can't hold your own in a discussion on the merits, a strategy is to just lie about what the other guy is saying, but it is pretty fucking disgusting.

Well to be fair your position might not be "it's just a flu", but "muh freedoms, ppl die all the time, who the fuck cares about the old lulz".

So, you know, not much better. So fuck you too.

[Duque de Bragança]

Curfew between 21 hours and 6 hours for the next 4 weeks, starting next Saturday, for Paris and 8 other cities.
Private meetings should not gather more than 6 people. I guess I can still organise or go to a small movie night as long as it is an all-nighter. 

[Zanza]

I think the way AR looks at the effects of the measures and statistics of the pandemic is legitimate and necessary. A lot of the measures seem completely nonsensical here (and probably elsewhere), whereas some really bad side effects for health, economy, education or interpersonal relations seem to be ignored.

The political consequences you derive of these analysis depend not just on the statistics though, but also on your personal values. I tend towards the majority opinion, but I can see where AR is coming from as I get more critical about the measures here as well as they seem to be more for show and reduce compliance as people don't buy in.

[Barrister]

Numbers in Alberta have hit our spring peak again, but government seems determined not to do any more to close down the economy.  I hope that's the right call...

[Sheilbh]

I think the way AR looks at the effects of the measures and statistics of the pandemic is legitimate and necessary. A lot of the measures seem completely nonsensical here (and probably elsewhere), whereas some really bad side effects for health, economy, education or interpersonal relations seem to be ignored.

The political consequences you derive of these analysis depend not just on the statistics though, but also on your personal values. I tend towards the majority opinion, but I can see where AR is coming from as I get more critical about the measures here as well as they seem to be more for show and reduce compliance as people don't buy in.

I agree with all of this - and I do look at Sweden a lot because their clear rules are still the same and still in place and still getting broad compliance. Also, and I know AR accepts this, I think the main driver is voluntary lockdowns - people adjusting their behaviour based on what feels safe. There's been recent polls in the UK with something like 70% of people not comfortable going to a pub, similar figures for cinemas etc. Until that shifts the legal lockdown is sort of a secondary driver in my opinion.

In general I support lockdown measures and part of this is moral for me because I don't think the risk is distributed equally and I don't think we can treat the elderly as if their lives are worth less so let's just carry on. There's a sort of human principle there for me about the worth of lives of people of all ages. But I don't think it's easy and I don't want schools shut again whatever happens.

Related to that the one public health message that annoyed me was the one from Dr Birx for a while about the risk to young people because I think there's been really strong evidence from very early that this disease doesn't affect young people anywhere near as severely and children are far, far less at risk (unlike flu). Though obviously there will be really awful individual cases it just felt like the wrong message from a public health figure and slightly misleading.