Coronavirus Sars-CoV-2/Covid-19 Megathread

[Barrister]

There is something absurd about dealing with a minority of the population that doesn't want to get vaccinated by:

a) not putting pressure on them to get vaccinated through reasonable public health measures in place for other diseases (such as vaccine requirements to attend schools)
b) turning your state into a Southern Baptist utopia for everyone because that will keep that minority from certain activities that may spread the disease

I concur. Measures like liquor bans are not based on any scientific insight and just discredit the useful measures. The pressure should be on the unvaccinated, not on the majority that is by now vaccinated.

Liquor ban (even just the hard stuff) would not fly over here. Seems really dumb and/or puritanical.
Night-clubs were just closed and I am not sure they were fully allowed to open, though things may have changed with the Anti-Covid Pass (itself not limited to vaccinated people but including tested people).

Nobody's banning liquor.  Even during the hardest part of the spring 2020 lockdown liquor stores remained open (I suspect there are too many alcoholics out there and unilaterally making the entire province go dry overnight would have been... problematic).

They're just temporarily banning the sale of alcohol after 10pm.

[alfred russel]

Nobody's banning liquor.  Even during the hardest part of the spring 2020 lockdown liquor stores remained open (I suspect there are too many alcoholics out there and unilaterally making the entire province go dry overnight would have been... problematic).

They're just temporarily banning the sale of alcohol after 10pm.

Probably the most easy and publicized countermeasure for covid - absent the vaccine - is masking. There was just a massive study out of Bangladesh that is showing evidence that masking initiatives are reducing the spread there by a statistically significant amount. It is making waves now because it was hard to find statistically significant benefits from such policies previously.

The point being: vaccines are overwhelmingly effective and there is a mountain of evidence saying so. Masking up is an extremely poor alternative that has taken a long time to demonstrate society level effectiveness. Banning liquor sales after 10...that seems more like covid theatre than a real policy.

[Jacob]

We had a rally of plague-rats in Vancouver a few days ago. About 5,000 mingled, showed signs about how vaccination and masks are evil, got in the way of ambulances en route to a nearby hospital, and a few of them spat at old people exciting buildings where they'd had cancer treatment because they were wearing masks.

On the upside, after BC announced vaccine passports the rate of vaccination has been increasing.

[Sheilbh]

Vaccine passports have been really successful in France and I've changed my mind on it and think we should have them domestically. Rates for the under 40s are lower than I'd like. Although I think it should also include a pass for people with antibodies or a medical exemption and I prefer the European model of using apps and QR codes to the American of using paper cards when Tucker Carlson is telling people to buy fakes.

But I think Alberta's an example of what people have been pointing out online where we're really basically saying we can't force people to be vaccinated but we can make people's lives so difficult that it's basically the equivalent.

Today we had a protest of anti-vaxxers trying to occupy the MHRA our medicines regulator

[The Brain]

Medical exemptions for vaccine passports has always struck me as a bit weird. The virus doesn't know or care if you have a medical issue. If being vaccinated is a safety requirement then why make exceptions? Safety isn't about fairness. We have medical requirements for a crapload of stuff, maybe most notably driving licences. Having a medical problem that prevents you from driving sucks, and it limits the person's life a lot. But we don't let them drive anyway. Sure, maybe the safety advantage of being vaccinated is so small that it's not necessary to make it an actual requirement, but then you end up in a weak situation when you try to explain to people who don't want to be vaccinated because of strongly held personal beliefs why they won't be getting exemptions. While it is a simplification, there is still a lot to "either it's important or it isn't".

[Sheilbh]

Sure - but I don't see the aim of vaccine passports is actually to be totally safe or even for them to actually work necessarily. It's more to encourage everyone who can hasn't been vaccinated to get their jabs.

[The Brain]

Sure - but I don't see the aim of vaccine passports is actually to be totally safe or even for them to actually work necessarily. It's more to encourage everyone who can hasn't been vaccinated to get their jabs.

I think it's unsound for the state to greatly curtail an individual's life if there is no compelling safety reason to do so.

[Sheilbh]

I don't know if there's any evidence that they work as a safety measure though - but we know they can get people vaccinated which makes everyone safer. And the alternative is that people can also get a pass if they have a negative test which should be free because if we're using a vaccine passport I don't think the very few people who are medically exempt (I think basically people with certain allergies) should be banned from those spaces or have to pay extra to access them.

[Sheilbh]

Probably the most easy and publicized countermeasure for covid - absent the vaccine - is masking. There was just a massive study out of Bangladesh that is showing evidence that masking initiatives are reducing the spread there by a statistically significant amount. It is making waves now because it was hard to find statistically significant benefits from such policies previously.

Saw this in the Economist - I had no idea that the benefits were that much stronger for older people:

[Syt]

So Austria has the highest Monday case numbers since April. In the meantime, vaccinations are at a near standstill. 70% have at least one vaccination, 66% have received to doses (that's percentage of people who can be vaccinated, not total population). Last weekend, less than 2000 people received their first shot, only 2.4M to go.

[Berkut]

Medical exemptions for vaccine passports has always struck me as a bit weird. The virus doesn't know or care if you have a medical issue. If being vaccinated is a safety requirement then why make exceptions? Safety isn't about fairness. We have medical requirements for a crapload of stuff, maybe most notably driving licences. Having a medical problem that prevents you from driving sucks, and it limits the person's life a lot. But we don't let them drive anyway. Sure, maybe the safety advantage of being vaccinated is so small that it's not necessary to make it an actual requirement, but then you end up in a weak situation when you try to explain to people who don't want to be vaccinated because of strongly held personal beliefs why they won't be getting exemptions. While it is a simplification, there is still a lot to "either it's important or it isn't".

Do you apply that same logic to the standard requirements that students in public schools get vaccinated?

Anyone who cannot be vaccinated for medical reasons....tough shit, no school for you?

[Syt]

So Austria has the highest Monday case numbers since April. In the meantime, vaccinations are at a near standstill. 70% have at least one vaccination, 66% have received to doses (that's percentage of people who can be vaccinated, not total population). Last weekend, less than 2000 people received their first shot, only 2.4M to go.

The chancellor announced his "plans" for Fall.
- schools stay open but will keep testing; if parents refuse testing, kids need to wear masks
- no lockdowns, but there may be "protective measure for the unvaccinated"
- the gauge for new measures will be the number of people in ICU, not 7 day case numbers

[Josquius]

Surely statistically someone has to have died through testing by now?
Shoving that stick down your throat does not seem safe or healthy.

[Sheilbh]

Baffling anti-vaxx protest this morning in London. They gathered around central-ish London to press the button at pelican crossings just constantly for an hour. I assume the theory was that this would bring traffic to a halt - or something. I really don't understand what they were trying to do.

Unfortunately those buttons (unlike the vaccines) are infamous placebos. They don't do anything. The traffic lights are set to fixed timed settings for each light. The button just gives something for pedestrians to do and feel like they're a little bit in control. So the effect of the protest was absolutely nothing

Edit: The saddest thing is, I suspect these are their best people coming up with these ideas

[garbon]

https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-23869955

At night, the button does act to stop the traffic, says Transport for London. But this is only between the hours of midnight and 07:00. In the daytime, the button has no effect.