Coronavirus Sars-CoV-2/Covid-19 Megathread

[crazy canuck]

47 new cases in n BC yesterday

We are being told to expect 4 to 6 months before the virus runs its course

[Sheilbh]

Increasingly convinced our lack of experience of another pandemic in the West v South Korea, Hong Kong etc is a key factor. So not taking this seriously - see also the French comments about idiots and Italian authorities talking about "irresponsible behaviour of some citizens".

Just had an email from soneone who is at a leaving lunch now. Their theory is they've all been at work together for the last week

[Syt]

We're looking at months here, too. It feels like a weird social experiment; one they'd do in the Fallout vaults, only on a much larger scale.

If anyone had told me last year that most Western countries would be in lockdown a few months later, with people staying home and public life at a standstill I'd have called them a crazy person.

[Fate]

COVID-19 admissions cases are starting to tick up here. Vast majority of positives are sent home for self-quarantine. We're probably 2 weeks behind NYC.

[Sheilbh]

Where are you again Fate?

[mongers]

Increasingly convinced our lack of experience of another pandemic in the West v South Korea, Hong Kong etc is a key factor. So not taking this seriously - see also the French comments about idiots and Italian authorities talking about "irresponsible behaviour of some citizens".

Just had an email from soneone who is at a leaving lunch now. Their theory is they've all been at work together for the last week

Just popped out to buy a paper and some milk, rather than try buying it on a crowded weekend, supermarket largely picked clean.

But what I don't understand is all the barbers, hair saloons and nail bars being open and having customers; what exactly is the societal benefit of having relative strangers breathing each others breath for 15-30 minutes at a time?

The government should have closed all non essential shops at the start of the week to increase social distance and cut possible transmission events.

[Sheilbh]

Just popped out to buy a paper and some milk, rather than try buying it on a crowded weekend, supermarket largely picked clean.

But what I don't understand if all the barbers, hair saloons and nail bars being open and having customers; what exactly is the societal benefit of having relative strangers breathing each others breath for 15-30 minutes at a time?

The government should have closed all non essential shops at the start of the week to increase social distance and cut possible transmission events.

So I think the Spanish members may have more information on salons as they're still allowed to operate in Spain and I think this caused a lot of jokes, but actually there were quite good reasons for it but generally they're operating on a one barber/hairdresser and one customer at a time policy.

Less clear on the nail bars and I'm inclined to agree - my area has loads which are normally very busy and they're still open but I've not seen more than one or two customers which is something. I also worry about them in general, in my area lots have been raided for breaking modern slavery laws and the council works with mainly Vietnamese charities to try to reach out to the people who work there. I worry about the staff in this situation and feel we maybe need something in place for vulnerable workers - but I'm not sure what.

[fromtia]

Increasingly convinced our lack of experience of another pandemic in the West v South Korea, Hong Kong etc is a key factor. So not taking this seriously - see also the French comments about idiots and Italian authorities talking about "irresponsible behaviour of some citizens".

Just had an email from soneone who is at a leaving lunch now. Their theory is they've all been at work together for the last week

This has got my attention as well. I think someone mentioned it earlier in the thread. The SE Asian countries have had a few practice runs, SARS especially so government has had a pressing incentive to be prepared. There also seems to be some important cultural or social factors related to trust in public institutions and the media, and personal responsibility. People in SKorea for the most part seem to understand whats at stake and what their role is as individuals. These are just impressions I have from reading news reports.

Does South Korea have something like a Fox News telling them its fake? Is there a rich tradition of making up conspiracies and being hostile to government and governance? I have no idea.

My facebook feed is still peppered with Covid deniers, my employer is still talking about a "media frenzy" and determined to stay open and my sons Grandparents (on the maternal side- the former spouse) are Trumpers and Fox watchers who despite being in their 70's are insistent that this is all hysteria.

[Syt]

Iran health authorities say every 10 minutes someone dies of Covid-19 in their country.

[Fate]

Where are you again Fate?

Baltimore.

DC's outbreak is like 1 week ahead of us due to the nexus of international travel and big political gatherings.

[mongers]

Iran health authorities say every 10 minutes someone dies of Covid-19 in their country.

That has to be an underestimate, because Italians are now dying at 20 per hour, once every three minutes.

[Sheilbh]

This has got my attention as well. I think someone mentioned it earlier in the thread. The SE Asian countries have had a few practice runs, SARS especially so government has had a pressing incentive to be prepared. There also seems to be some important cultural or social factors related to trust in public institutions and the media, and personal responsibility. People in SKorea for the most part seem to understand whats at stake and what their role is as individuals. These are just impressions I have from reading news reports.

Does South Korea have something like a Fox News telling them its fake? Is there a rich tradition of making up conspiracies and being hostile to government and governance? I have no idea.

My facebook feed is still peppered with Covid deniers, my employer is still talking about a "media frenzy" and determined to stay open and my sons Grandparents (on the maternal side- the former spouse) are Trumpers and Fox watchers who despite being in their 70's are insistent that this is all hysteria.

I found this piece quite interesting and it rings true - we don't have the fully polarised/Fox News issue here but similar. I also found the Chinese meme interesting - so maybe it's not just us:
https://spectator.us/ok-boomer-danger-coronavirus-stubbornness/

OK boomer, but you're in danger
How stubbornness became the coronavirus's biggest ally
Bridget Phetasy
March 18, 2020
6:06 PM

Last week my cousin started a group text with three other cousins, two childhood friends and myself, as a virtual support group during social distancing and a way to stay connected. At first it was basically for memes and relevant articles we found interesting or informative — but it wasn't long before the group devolved into sharing screenshots and anecdotes of the frustrating conversations they were having with their boomer/silent generation parents and relatives.

I'd been having similar, exasperating conversations with stubborn loved ones for weeks. I understand that facing your mortality is terrifying and often we react with one of the most powerful mechanisms the human psyche has in the face of fear and death — denial. Realizing you are the next generation in line to crash on the shores of humanity cannot be easy. But what became evident both in my interactions and those in the text group was how much politics has infected every aspect of our lives in America, even the way we view something as bipartisan as a virus.

The left-wing garden variety boomers, guys like my dad, old school Yankees, seemed to take it seriously — but behaved like they weren't in danger. They paid lip service to the seriousness of it, but the story hadn't been localized and therefore, couldn't happen to them. My friend said, 'Every time I'd talk to my mother-in-law she'd just be getting home.'

My cousin told the story of her dad getting a computer to work from home and then visiting five thrift stores to find a desk. Frustrated she had to explain, 'Dad you're not supposed to be OUT.'

Another cousin offered to shop for her parents and told them to stay home and my aunt, a strong Irishwoman responded, 'Yeah that's not happening.' She's since come around, but it took a day of bombarding her with well-reported science articles.

'My mom literally said to me you have nothing to worry about if your immune system is strong,' a friend told me. 'I told her "mom, dad's immune system is compromised" and she said, "yeah but he doesn't go anywhere — I do all the shopping."'

Americans aren't alone in their frustrations with their parents and grandparents. In China the young were more concerned about the coronavirus than their older kin in the beginning of the outbreak. The following meme was circulating:

Nicholas A. Christakis @NAChristakis  · Mar 13, 2020 Replying to @NAChristakis
In China, apparently the young were more concerned initially about COVID19 than the old, who were nonchalant. Images like this circulated. It's good not to panic or be alarmist; but it's also good not to be complacent. #gallowshumor 30/

As attitudes about the severity of the situation evolved, so did the meme.

The denial from our relatives who leaned right was different. My opinions about 'The Culture' have landed me in the thick of right-wing media in the past three years and my cousin explained to the group that I spoke 'fluent boomer' — but even I felt hopeless when trying to get through to the MAGA boomers I cared about the most. I always thought my friends on the left were exaggerating when they said Fox News was poisoning their parents' brains — until my expressions of love and concern were being met with hostility and contempt. Perhaps this is a normal reaction to fear — but this went beyond denial. This was politics.

The opinions ranged from a more center-right 'wait and see' attitude to a host of different rebuttals, from 'the left-wing media are trying to tank the economy' to 'the coronavirus is a Deep State plan to undermine Trump' (one that apparently involves killing people all over the world). Most everyone I knew who identified as #MAGA told some version of a story that Chinese scientists made the virus in a lab with bats that they then took home to make bat soup.

These are some of the most educated people I know. Pillars in their community. And they're spouting conspiracy theories that are batshit crazy (pun intended). Despite the fact that we were expressing concern for their life, they would ridicule us for staying home and say we were 'overreacting to media alarmism'.

It struck me that I was having similarly frustrating conversations with my left-wing relatives during the entire 'Russia hacked our elections' phase of the news cycle that now feels like decades ago. To boomers who rely on mainstream media as their only way to process an uncertain world, more and more they accept whatever conspiracy theories the media peddles in order to avoid facing their own cognitive dissonance.

Believing the coronavirus is 'no big deal' could cost these people their lives. Honestly, thank God for Tucker Carlson, who seemed to be the only Fox News pundit who broke rank early on and told his audience they needed to take the 'Chinese virus' very seriously.

I sent his video to the group text to share with their loved ones. Unlike us 'snowflakes' who believed 'lyin' CNN', Tucker was one of them. He spoke to them. Until President Trump addressed the nation from the Oval Office, he was effectively the only one who could warn them of the danger without forcing them to admit that Trump might be wrong or lying.

Pandemics don't care about our silly culture wars. They are the great leveler. They reveal our weaknesses and our strengths as nations, communities and individuals.

A moving video by Giovanni Locatelli of the obituary pages in the Bergamo daily newspaper showed the difference in pages between February 9  and March 13. On February 9, the obituaries took up one-and-a-half pages. By March 10, they were spread across 10. More than anything, this drove the point home visually that this isn't 'just the flu'.

I'm writing through tears because the people at the most risk are our grandparents, parents, aunts, uncles, our blood. What's the proper response? In unprecedented times, no one really knows. But I do know we stand a better chance if we face this crisis head on, rather than deny that it's happening.

Boomers if you're reading this: your kids and grandkids aren't expressing concern because we're overreacting or brainwashed by liberal media — we're saying it because we love you.

[Sheilbh]

Another 32 deaths in the UK, 29 in England (of which 18 in and around London) - aged between 47 and 96 with underlying conditions. So an increase of 31%.

There also seem to be a lot of deaths in Barking Havering and Redbridge University Hospital NHS Trust particularly - I think they might have an older demographic as they cover that bit of London that is, culturally, basically Essex. But I also seem to remember reading about them being placed in special measures a few times - so there may be a more systemic problem going on.

[Iormlund]

So I think the Spanish members may have more information on salons as they're still allowed to operate in Spain and I think this caused a lot of jokes, but actually there were quite good reasons for it but generally they're operating on a one barber/hairdresser and one customer at a time policy.

That exemption (supposedly on hygiene grounds) lasted just a couple days.

On that topic I cut my hair on my own for the  first time yesterday. Used my beard trimmer going from 10 to 3 mm. The front looks ok, and I haven't seen anything glaringly terrible with the phone camera at the back either.

[PDH]

Santa Cruz County is one of the counties on "Shelter in Place" orders.  Unfortunately, my job as Manager of Receiving and Mail services means I and my whole crew are considered essential.  This means we come in to work every day, go to all the mail stops and see all the freight and truck drivers, in short we are essential in taking it on the chin for interaction with the disease.  Oh, essential means we are also far lower paid than the full time office sitters who, incidentally, are complaining that the Surplus Operations (that I also run) are closed and they can't poke around for cheap lumbar support chairs or ergo desks for their work at home.

I am 54 years old with fucked up bronchial tubes from several overly harsh bouts of bronchitis years ago.  My hope is that my case will be one of the mild one, but I am not betting on it.