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What Would You Do About Climate Change?

Started by mongers, December 28, 2019, 09:21:23 AM

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Scenario - The World's Governments Accept A Climate Plan, What Would You Agree To Do

Cut my use of fossil fueled private transport significantly
13 (61.9%)
I won't be cutting back on fossil fuel private transport
2 (9.5%)
I will significantly cut back on my consumption of meat
10 (47.6%)
I won't be cutting back on eating meat
6 (28.6%)
I will turn down my household heating and use less AC
10 (47.6%)
I won't change my household temperature
6 (28.6%)
I will significantly cut the number of international and domestic flights I take
11 (52.4%)
I won't be cutting back on air travel
5 (23.8%)
I will noticeable reduce my consumption of consumer goods / clothing etc
13 (61.9%)
I won't reduce my consumption of these goods
3 (14.3%)
I don't believe climate change is real, so won't be doing anything.
1 (4.8%)
It's happening, but I don't want to change my lifestyle
1 (4.8%)
It's too late so I won't be doing anything (cop out option 1)
1 (4.8%)
Technological changes that'll solve the problem,  so I don't need to do anything (cop out option 2)
1 (4.8%)
Jaron option  (space aliens will arrive and save us from ourselves)
3 (14.3%)

Total Members Voted: 21

mongers

Quote from: Zoupa on December 29, 2019, 02:37:10 PM
Yup. To the question what would you do about climate change?, I think the most effective answer is vote for people who actually give a shit.

Zoupa, in this scenario that's implicitly already happened:

Quote from: mongers on December 28, 2019, 09:21:23 AM
Imagine a scenario where the World's govenrments agree a binding climate plan, they'll then enact it and policy begins to filter down to the people.

In this situation what measures would you agree to take as part of your government plan?

Or Indeed what significant changes have your yourself already made?
....

So the question still stand, what would you do?
"We have it in our power to begin the world over again"

Zoupa

Me personally? The easiest would be restricting meat consumption, as I'm already eating very little.

Switching to electric transportation/mass transit would be ok. But I think the question is a non-sequitur (maybe I'm using that wrong).

The onus is on legislators. Individual citizens or consumers will always go for the cheapest option in 90% of cases because our day to day life is fucking rough as it is.

Berkut

Im not sure how to vote though - I am not going to do anything other than respond to the incentives placed before.

If you want me to cut my use of fossil fuels to push my car around with my fat ass inside of it, then force me to pay for the actual cost of a gallon of gas, to include the carbon offset cost, then use that added money to re-forest - for example.

We basically have to do the following:

1. Cut emission of greenhouse gasses to net zero.
2. Remove carbon dioxide from the atmosphere
3. Adapt the world to the changes that we cannot realistically prevent or reverse from items 1 & 2.
4. Create a government agency with the resources, power and capability to coordinate these efforts in a non-partisan, non-political manner, to the extent that is possible. Something like the militaries Joint Chiefs of Staff for wartime - a group of technocrats responsible for shaping policy and making recommendations to Congress and the Executive.

Item #1 should be attacked by agressive carbon tax, cap and trade, and regulations. It should go after the creation and release of carbon into the environment at every stage. That means taxing it when comes out of the ground (combination of tax and cap and trade). One thing that must happen is we need to stop actually subsidizing fossil fuel generation! It is insane that the government actually gives money to companies to create more pollution. That must stop immediately of course.

Continue ramping up wind and solar, and aggressively subsidize research into modern nuclear power generation options - look at the Gates Foundation research into smaller scale, modern reactors that are fail safe. Create significant incentives for agressive research into power generation options that are carbon neutral.

Item #2. Start looking very hard at agriculture, and how we can make better use of land under cultivation (not sure there is a lot of uplift here, since there is already plenty of economic pressure in this space). But make sure that the true cost of meat production is factored in, and replace most farming subsidies with subsidies for large scale, carbon neutral farming methods.

Aforestation and re-forestation. We need to (again, agressively) treat deforestation as a global problem. Define it as a international crime subject to international action to deforest. Combine carrot and stick diplomacy to make it simply not good politics or economics to engage in slash and burn. The rain forests used to cover 12% of the earths surface, now they cover 5%. If there are countries that are doing this because their economies demand it, then make it in their interest to no longer need that - whatever gains they make, they need to compensated for by the rest of the world to stop destroying these global resources. It makes our fucking air. Sorry it is in your country, and your country has been shit on for a long time, but still, it makes our air damnit. You can't cut them down anymore. And if you insist (fucking Argentina) then the rest of the world should treat you the way it treats other rogue nations.

The state of New York used to be pretty much all forest. Now there is very little. We can change that/

Urbanization. Embrace it. Suburbs were a great idea, but yeah, turns out they were actually a pretty fucking terrible idea for a variety of reasons. How do we align incentives to kill sprawl and concentrate people again?

Those are just some starting thoughts. It takes political will however, and the will to drive through the considerable tactical resistance that will be inevitable from the various vested interest groups (plenty of them actually environmental groups, in fact).

"If you think this has a happy ending, then you haven't been paying attention."

select * from users where clue > 0
0 rows returned

Sheilbh

Quote from: Berkut on December 29, 2019, 03:42:12 PM
Item #2. Start looking very hard at agriculture, and how we can make better use of land under cultivation (not sure there is a lot of uplift here, since there is already plenty of economic pressure in this space). But make sure that the true cost of meat production is factored in, and replace most farming subsidies with subsidies for large scale, carbon neutral farming methods.
One aspect of the meat side of this that I find challenging is that the meat that is best environmentally is worst from an animal welfare (and flavour - I would argue) perspective. The least environmentally harmful form of meat production is industrial farming, the worst is organic, free-range giving the animals a good life.

That's partly why I think I'm better off just reducing/cutting it out.

It's a bit like fish (which I love and would pick over meat any day) which I find really difficult to buy just because of how unsustainable our consumption is of certain fish stocks. I have an app which gives me the Marine Stewardship Council's recommendation, but unless I travel to a posh bit of town and go to a fishmonger, everything is amber or red. Except for tilapia :(
Let's bomb Russia!

Valmy

So I should only eat Tilapia? Bummer. But I could do that with some good sauce.
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

The Larch

Quote from: Sheilbh on December 29, 2019, 04:19:37 PMOne aspect of the meat side of this that I find challenging is that the meat that is best environmentally is worst from an animal welfare (and flavour - I would argue) perspective. The least environmentally harmful form of meat production is industrial farming, the worst is organic, free-range giving the animals a good life.

Huh? Where do you get that from? Industrial farming has tons of issues, it is in no way the best environemtal option for meat consumption.

Sheilbh

Quote from: The Larch on December 29, 2019, 06:08:29 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on December 29, 2019, 04:19:37 PMOne aspect of the meat side of this that I find challenging is that the meat that is best environmentally is worst from an animal welfare (and flavour - I would argue) perspective. The least environmentally harmful form of meat production is industrial farming, the worst is organic, free-range giving the animals a good life.

Huh? Where do you get that from? Industrial farming has tons of issues, it is in no way the best environemtal option for meat consumption.

https://fcrn.org.uk/sites/default/files/project-files/fcrn_gnc_summary.pdf
Agree it has a ton of issues, but free range has a bigger environmental impact - especially as, in the winter, those free range cattle are fed the same sort of soy feed as the intensively farmed animals.

This is why with meat I think it is just important/better to opt-out/cut-down in general.
Let's bomb Russia!

Admiral Yi

https://www3.epa.gov/carbon-footprint-calculator/

Calculate your carbon footprint.  Does not include air travel unfortunately.

I got 9,744 pounds a year.  US average is 24,550.

Admiral Yi

https://calculator.carbonfootprint.com/calculator.aspx?tab=3

Using this site to calculate air travel adds 1.09 metric tons.  That's 2,403 pounds.

Shit that's a lot in comparison to home energy, car (I drive very little) and waste generation.

mongers

Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 29, 2019, 09:09:43 PM
https://calculator.carbonfootprint.com/calculator.aspx?tab=3

Using this site to calculate air travel adds 1.09 metric tons.  That's 2,403 pounds.

Shit that's a lot in comparison to home energy, car (I drive very little) and waste generation.

Interesting, but the first calculator linked to seems very crude so nearly anything would be an improvement.
"We have it in our power to begin the world over again"

HisMajestyBOB

Mine is 18,733. Unlike the average American, I have the advantage of primarily using public transit to commute. I would guess that 36% of Virginia's electricity being generated by nuclear power would also help keep me below average.
Three lovely Prada points for HoI2 help

Admiral Yi

Quote from: HisMajestyBOB on December 29, 2019, 10:51:35 PM
Mine is 18,733. Unlike the average American, I have the advantage of primarily using public transit to commute. I would guess that 36% of Virginia's electricity being generated by nuclear power would also help keep me below average.

Did you manually put in the renewable energy percentage in the box below electricity, or did you assume your zip would cover that?  It wasn't clear to me.

DGuller

Mine is 14,700.  What kills me are the stupid PTACs in my apartment, which must be horribly inefficient for their purpose.

viper37

Quote from: mongers on December 28, 2019, 09:21:23 AM
Imagine a scenario where the World's govenrments agree a binding climate plan, they'll then enact it and policy begins to filter down to the people.

In this situation what measures would you agree to take as part of your government plan?

Or Indeed what significant changes have your yourself already made?

You've got up to 6 votes, mainly so you can answer the first 5 pairs of linked questions.


Note by significant I mean greater than 50%
I don't travel much, so I can't really cut on that, I mean, last time I boarded a flight was 30 years ago.
My heating is at 17C, I use wood and compressed wood pellets to maintain temp between 22-24C.  In summer time, I only use a/c in the office, due to equipement failures from excessive heat.
I'll settle for using my car a tad less often to travel outside my home town.  That way, I'll become depressive and commit suicide, so I won't be polluting the earth anymore by breathing.
And you're welcome to take my red meat from my cold dead hands. :P
I don't do meditation.  I drink alcohol to relax, like normal people.

If Microsoft Excel decided to stop working overnight, the world would practically end.

HisMajestyBOB

Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 29, 2019, 11:13:14 PM
Quote from: HisMajestyBOB on December 29, 2019, 10:51:35 PM
Mine is 18,733. Unlike the average American, I have the advantage of primarily using public transit to commute. I would guess that 36% of Virginia's electricity being generated by nuclear power would also help keep me below average.

Did you manually put in the renewable energy percentage in the box below electricity, or did you assume your zip would cover that?  It wasn't clear to me.

I assumed ZIP would cover that. It would be trivial to get that data at least on a state level given the ZIP code.
Three lovely Prada points for HoI2 help