Society Gets More Progressive Because People Die

[crazy canuck]

But where is the experience of seeing it fail and particularly in a context where that would be internalized.  Really the argument goes the other way, enough people have seen the absolute failure of conservative policies that they are becoming more progressive and even radical.

Well here is hoping these "enough people" show up and actually vote.

indeed.  But the point of the Economist article is that change is inevitable and I think that is undeniable.  The concern we share is whether it will happen quickly enough.

[viper37]

Jealousy will be seen as "petit bourgeois" and retrograde.

I have doubts about that.  Human nature plays a lot here.  Of course, there are people who have zero jealousy and are willing to accept that.  But in any kind of relationship, there will be a favorite among others.  A First among Equals... Men who marry multiple wives often have one favourite they bed more often than the others, for a time.  Usually, these wives are conditionned from birth to accept this.   

Sometimes it does not, but it ain't a "natural order".  People aren't programmed to accept polygamy just like that.  Even a man cheating on his spouse multiple times would frown upon his wife doing the same.  What we see are often younger people experimenting with life, doing it for a time, then settling down in monogamous relationships.  There's no strong social pressure in most occidental countries to live 1-1 in an heterosexual relationship and practicing abstinence until marriage...  Yet, people, are naturally evolving, over their life, toward this model.

I don't think it's a coincidence that most religions preach monogamy for women but are either silent or accepting of men's polygamy.  Most likely, in our distant pasts, jealousy arose, leading to vendettas, wars, etc, and some philosophers/preachers sought to end that by enforcing monogamy, either via religious laws, or via social norms, like the Romans.

[Sheilbh]

What are the examples it uses aside from gay marriage?

[Admiral Yi]

What are the examples it uses aside from gay marriage?

Communist books in libraries
Interracial marriage
Working women can be good mothers
Abortion for any reason
Government spending on black people
Men better at politics
Legal marijuana

[Sheilbh]

Interesting, it probably depends what period you look at. With interracial marriage for example - and I'm sure I've seen something similar with cannabis and arguably with gay marriage too - it's more that there is a sudden total social shift across generations:

[Eddie Teach]

I wonder what happened in 1990 to cause that spike.

[Admiral Yi]

Halle Barry?

[Sheilbh]

Similarly, less of a sudden shift, but there is a shift on pot:


And I swear it's the same with acceptance of the gays and gay marriage.

Edit: Also that chart shows why I do kind of sympathise with the boomer-hate. I mean fuck me

[Valmy]

Interesting how it went down for everybody but the olds around when Obama got elected...

[Valmy]

Edit: Also that chart shows why I do kind of sympathise with the boomer-hate. I mean fuck me

The Boomers all became squares in the 80s.

[Admiral Yi]

Interesting how support for marijuana declined when everyone started doing coke and X. 

[Sheilbh]

Edit: Also that chart shows why I do kind of sympathise with the boomer-hate. I mean fuck me

The Boomers all became squares in the 80s.

That's one of the things I think about this generation too. The hippies ended up as the core vote for Thatcher and Reagan

[Eddie Teach]

It wasn't really the hippies, it was Nixon's Silent Majority.

[Berkut]

Meh, history shows that it is most certainly an option. Indeed, even if at first you fail to change and let the chaos swamp you...the outcome of that is inevitably the rise of powers that decide how to understand and control the change.

There are plenty of examples of people, organizations, or even countries that have successfully understood, adapted to, and controlled change.

And usually examples of other people, organizations, or countries that refused to adapt to the exact same change and suffered the consequences.

Of something like 5k years of human history, my reading is that every powerful state eventually falls, and whatever ideals a society has will eventually be abandoned and replaces.

But maybe we will be the exception.

I have no idea how that is a response to anything I have said.

[DGuller]

Sometimes change is just a fleeting fad, so completely ignoring it and waiting for the fad to die is the right move.  I don't think there can be an algorithmic approach to figuring out how to deal with change optimally; you have to use your judgment, and you'll get it wrong sometimes no matter which way you're inclined to go.