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The Impeachment of President Donald J Trump

Started by FunkMonk, September 24, 2019, 02:10:43 PM

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Sheilbh

I think Mulvaney was ahead of schedule and they'll end up basically saying everyone does it or would do it if they were smart enough.
Let's bomb Russia!

The Minsky Moment

Quote from: Sheilbh on October 23, 2019, 01:43:58 PM
I think Mulvaney was ahead of schedule and they'll end up basically saying everyone does it or would do it if they were smart enough.

More than anything else that's why he has to be impeached.
If he isn't, then it makes that statement come true.
The purpose of studying economics is not to acquire a set of ready-made answers to economic questions, but to learn how to avoid being deceived by economists.
--Joan Robinson

Habbaku

Right. If Trump gets away with this action, it'll open the floodgates to seeking external influence in future elections. If he can flout it, there's no reason not to do so in the future.
The medievals were only too right in taking nolo episcopari as the best reason a man could give to others for making him a bishop. Give me a king whose chief interest in life is stamps, railways, or race-horses; and who has the power to sack his Vizier (or whatever you care to call him) if he does not like the cut of his trousers.

Government is an abstract noun meaning the art and process of governing and it should be an offence to write it with a capital G or so as to refer to people.

-J. R. R. Tolkien

PDH

I was going to comment on the Republican takeover of the hearings in the secure room, but I realized what is the point?
I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.
-Umberto Eco

-------
"I'm pretty sure my level of depression has nothing to do with how much of a fucking asshole you are."

-CdM

Admiral Yi

Quote from: The Minsky Moment on October 23, 2019, 01:09:34 PM
The House has the power to impeach (indict) and thus has the functional role of a grand jury in an ordinary criminal case.  The witness depositions and subpoenas are the functional equivalent of a grand jury subpoena.

But Republicans in the House have the right to question (cross examine) witnesses, jah?

The best defense IMO would have been that investigating the Bidens in Ukraine is a legitimate state interest of the US.

PDH

Quote from: Admiral Yi on October 23, 2019, 04:27:22 PM
But Republicans in the House have the right to question (cross examine) witnesses, jah?

The best defense IMO would have been that investigating the Bidens in Ukraine is a legitimate state interest of the US.

The Republican are on the committees, they are in the hearings, they can ask questions.  The problem is that potentially sensitive information is also being discussed, so making this phase public is nuts.

I agree, wasting money on investigating the closed story of Burisma makes strategic sense, but I am not sure it would help - the nuts are strong on the Right.
I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.
-Umberto Eco

-------
"I'm pretty sure my level of depression has nothing to do with how much of a fucking asshole you are."

-CdM

Barrister

Quote from: Admiral Yi on October 23, 2019, 04:27:22 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on October 23, 2019, 01:09:34 PM
The House has the power to impeach (indict) and thus has the functional role of a grand jury in an ordinary criminal case.  The witness depositions and subpoenas are the functional equivalent of a grand jury subpoena.

But Republicans in the House have the right to question (cross examine) witnesses, jah?

The best defense IMO would have been that investigating the Bidens in Ukraine is a legitimate state interest of the US.

They tried that.  The problem is it is so transparent that the only "corruption" Trump was interested in was that of Hunter Biden.
Posts here are my own private opinions.  I do not speak for my employer.

Razgovory

Quote from: Habbaku on October 23, 2019, 03:56:31 PM
Right. If Trump gets away with this action, it'll open the floodgates to seeking external influence in future elections. If he can flout it, there's no reason not to do so in the future.


I think that Democrats in the House and the Senate should make this clear, and to clarify the their position they should state that if Trump is not removed from office they will take immediate action to request criminal inquiries of the Trump organization in all countries where Donald Trump has property.  Make it clear that Donald Trump, his family and his business will never be safe if it is legal to request foreign nationals to open criminal investigations into political opponents.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

Razgovory

One of the most shocking things about this is that several legitimate politicians were in on this.  Rick Perry may not be particularly clever but he knows that using government resources for campaign resources is a crime.  They explain that to your when you first run for office.  Secretary of State's office (secretary of state for individual states, not the Federal one) sends you a big packet of information. Guys like Bar and Mulveny and Pompeo should know better.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

Admiral Yi

I don't think it's coincidental that Perry resigned.

Sheilbh

Quote from: Razgovory on October 23, 2019, 04:59:39 PM
One of the most shocking things about this is that several legitimate politicians were in on this.  Rick Perry may not be particularly clever but he knows that using government resources for campaign resources is a crime.  They explain that to your when you first run for office.  Secretary of State's office (secretary of state for individual states, not the Federal one) sends you a big packet of information. Guys like Bar and Mulveny and Pompeo should know better.
I often wonder that. But we're a few steps away from people who could serve in any Republican administration acting as guardrails and quite deep into the reserve team right now.

And even then I think Mulvaney is still technically OMB Director plus Acting Chief of Staff.
Let's bomb Russia!

Admiral Yi

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aOiZ3Jzqc7U

About two dozen GOP Congressdudes stormed into secure hearing room where the NSC chick was giving testimony.

Sheilbh

:lol: Apparently 12 them are serving on committees with access and could attend the hearings if they wanted.

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/addybaird/republicans-storm-scif-impeach-trump-pizza-phones

QuoteNotably, according to a list provided by Gaetz's office of the Republicans who RSVP'd to join the protest, 12 of them are members of the Oversight or Foreign Affairs committees — including Rep. Jim Jordan, the ranking member on the Oversight Committee — meaning they have been allowed to sit in on all depositions held in the SCIF in recent weeks. A spokesperson for Rep. Ken Buck, who is on the list and serves on the Foreign Affairs Committee, however, later clarified that he did not attend, though he tweeted in support.

Rep. Fred Keller, an Oversight member who joined the protest, "was acting in solidarity with those members of Congress who are not allowed in the hearings, to review testimony, or read transcripts of this secret inquiry. ... [He] believes the way this inquiry is being conducted is unfair and it needs to stop," according to a spokesperson.
Let's bomb Russia!

The Minsky Moment

Quote from: Admiral Yi on October 23, 2019, 05:02:27 PM
I don't think it's coincidental that Perry resigned.

Right, and the full circumstances of Bolton's departure are also coming more into focus.
The purpose of studying economics is not to acquire a set of ready-made answers to economic questions, but to learn how to avoid being deceived by economists.
--Joan Robinson

The Minsky Moment

GOP coming around to civil liberties AND imitating Occupy Wall Street.

Trump really is a miracle worker.
The purpose of studying economics is not to acquire a set of ready-made answers to economic questions, but to learn how to avoid being deceived by economists.
--Joan Robinson