Swedish town launches controversial £21 begging permit

[garbon]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/aug/05/swedish-town-launches-controversial-21-begging-permit

A Swedish town has become the first in the country to introduce an official begging permit, requiring anyone who asks for money in the street to pay SEK250 (£21) upfront for a licence.

Valid for three months, the permit can be obtained by filling in a form online or at a police station and requires a valid ID. Anyone found begging for money in Eskilstuna, west of Stockholm, without one faces a fine of up to SEK 4,000 (£342).

Jimmy Jansson, a Social Democrat local councillor, said the scheme, which came into force on 1 August after nearly a year of legal delays, was aimed at "bureaucratising" begging to "make it more difficult" for people to ask for money.

"We'll see where this goes," Jansson told local media, adding that the permit system should help bring homeless and other vulnerable people in contact with the local authority, in particular, social services.

Critics of the scheme have said it legitimises begging and argued it makes those who are reduced to asking for money, many of whom are Roma from countries such as Romania and Bulgaria, more vulnerable.

Tomas Lindroos, of the Stadsmission charity, said the system increased opportunities for exploitation, pointing out that criminal gangs could pay for people's permit applications and then demand extortionate repayments.

However, Jansson told Aftonbladet newspaper the council's approach was the right one. "This is not about harassing vulnerable people but trying to address the bigger question: whether we think begging should be normalised within the Swedish welfare model.

"I hear a lot of criticism of any attempts to regulate begging, but I don't see the same strength and energy directed at the fact that people are forced to beg in the first place."

Several Swedish towns have outlawed begging altogether in recent months after the supreme administrative court upheld a ban on the practice in the town of Vellinge, in the country's southernmost county of Skåne, in December.

The state broadcaster SVT reported that applications for eight permits had been filed in Eskilstuna over the weekend, while three EU citizens begging in the town centre without a licence were informed of the new law by police and moved on.

According to Aftonbladet, some beggars were attempting to circumvent the regime by selling blueberries, a development Jansson described as "not unexpected" and "a reasonable reaction to a change in the conditions".

Thomas Bergqvist, Eskilstuna's chief of police, told the paper the municipality's lawyers were considering how to respond. "You have to look at the whole, make an assessment of whether this is a way of getting round the new provision," he said.

[Josquius]

I suppose, one could look at begging like prostitution.
It may not be nice, but its going to happen, so it should be regulated.

If I remember right historically in some places it was rather common that beggars had to get permits to beg in a certain parish, so as to discourage itinerant beggars.

Of course, any determined 'illicit' beggar, will just forge the permit.  But it would be nice if there was a way to tell the difference between the genuinely needy and those just trying to get easy money.

[Threviel]

99% of beggars in Sweden are Roms from Romania and Bulgaria. It's an attempt to get rid of them.

[garbon]

If I remember right historically in some places it was rather common that beggars had to get permits to beg in a certain parish, so as to discourage itinerant beggars.

Are those the grounds one should be mining for sound social policy?

Of course, any determined 'illicit' beggar, will just forge the permit.  But it would be nice if there was a way to tell the difference between the genuinely needy and those just trying to get easy money.

[Josquius]

If I remember right historically in some places it was rather common that beggars had to get permits to beg in a certain parish, so as to discourage itinerant beggars.

Are those the grounds one should be mining for sound social policy?

Of course, any determined 'illicit' beggar, will just forge the permit.  But it would be nice if there was a way to tell the difference between the genuinely needy and those just trying to get easy money.

They exist.
And they make it harder for those in genuine need.
https://metro.co.uk/2019/03/21/fake-rough-sleeper-who-earns-up-to-600-a-day-says-begging-brings-in-more-than-working-8975704/

[garbon]

Sounds like a lovely bit of scaremongering.

[Josquius]

Sounds like a lovely bit of scaremongering.

Nope.
The extent to which they are  problem is grossly overblown by certain groups.
But they do exist.
Would be great to see actual data on how much of an issue they're estimated to be

[Valmy]

They exist.
And they make it harder for those in genuine need.
https://metro.co.uk/2019/03/21/fake-rough-sleeper-who-earns-up-to-600-a-day-says-begging-brings-in-more-than-working-8975704/

I hope he is reporting that income to the proper tax authorities

[garbon]

Sounds like a lovely bit of scaremongering.

Nope.
The extent to which they are  problem is grossly overblown by certain groups.
But they do exist.
Would be great to see actual data on how much of an issue they're estimated to be

But that's the whole point with my comment about scaremongering. To what extent is 'faking' homelessness an actual issue vs. real homelessness that it needs to be worried about?

[crazy canuck]

Vancouver used to have a large number of squeegee people (the folks who waiting at long red lights to clean your front window and then ask for a donation).  The city passed a bylaw making it an offence punishable by fine unless the appropriate business licence was obtained.   People scoffed at it, including me, as unenforceable.  But now that I think about it, the squeegee folks are gone.

[Malthus]

Vancouver used to have a large number of squeegee people (the folks who waiting at long red lights to clean your front window and then ask for a donation).  The city passed a bylaw making it an offence punishable by fine unless the appropriate business licence was obtained.   People scoffed at it, including me, as unenforceable.  But now that I think about it, the squeegee folks are gone.

The question is - what have they moved on to doing?

'I guess begging is now illegal. So is stealing ... ' 

[crazy canuck]

Vancouver used to have a large number of squeegee people (the folks who waiting at long red lights to clean your front window and then ask for a donation).  The city passed a bylaw making it an offence punishable by fine unless the appropriate business licence was obtained.   People scoffed at it, including me, as unenforceable.  But now that I think about it, the squeegee folks are gone.

The question is - what have they moved on to doing?

'I guess begging is now illegal. So is stealing ... ' 

That is what I had thought at the time.  No idea what the are doing.  Crime rates are going down so who knows?  Probably all employed in the legal pot industry now 

[The Brain]

Long time passing?

[saskganesh]

Squeegee folks still ask for money from waiting traffic. They just no longer squeegee.