Elon Musk: Always A Douche

[Admiral Yi]

It makes *some* difference but arson even without murder is still a serious crime.

In context, although the ravings of violent racists are difficult to translate into a logically coherent expression, it seems unlikely that the individual in question was expressing their rage at the mere physical existence of the buildings, as opposed to expressing the desire that the buildings be destroyed as a necessary by-product of eliminating the human beings inside.

This is circular thinking.  You think the person is a violent racist, therefore it is more likely they want to burn immigrants alive.  You think they are a violent racist because they want to burn immigrants alive.

[The Minsky Moment]

It's a bullshit grenade. Throw garbage arguments into the room, and let the "normals" waste their time debunking every argument.

It's tempting to say that but there is a long line of such thought stemming from the so-called "paleoconservative" American right. It's not an accident that Trump's political movement was named after the 30s era pro-Nazi America First organization. The war discredited must of those people but a significant minority remained convinced that America picked the wrong side and should have opted for Hitler against Churchill and Stalin.  Pat Buchanan was a notable proponent of that line of thought and managed to enter the mainstream of GOP politics and mount some serious presidential challenges.  He wrote a book that basically made the same argument that Cooper is now parroting, although toning down the more overtly Hitlery rhetoric.

Trumpism is really just Buchananism in a more populist/"outsider" guise.  Buchanan also broke with GOP orthodoxy to favor tariffs and protectionism, opposed NATO etc.

[The Minsky Moment]

It makes *some* difference but arson even without murder is still a serious crime.

In context, although the ravings of violent racists are difficult to translate into a logically coherent expression, it seems unlikely that the individual in question was expressing their rage at the mere physical existence of the buildings, as opposed to expressing the desire that the buildings be destroyed as a necessary by-product of eliminating the human beings inside.

This is circular thinking.  You think the person is a violent racist, therefore it is more likely they want to burn immigrants alive.  You think they are a violent racist because they want to burn immigrants alive.

Not really - I'm saying that the two alternatives are that the person is an extremist architecture critic with a vendetta against those particular buildings or a violent racist.  Option 2 seems more plausible.

[Admiral Yi]

Not really - I'm saying that the two alternatives are that the person is an extremist architecture critic with a vendetta against those particular buildings or a violent racist.  Option 2 seems more plausible.

I can think of another.  The person is opposed to the policy of housing immigrants at state expense.

[Barrister]

It's a bullshit grenade. Throw garbage arguments into the room, and let the "normals" waste their time debunking every argument.

It's tempting to say that but there is a long line of such thought stemming from the so-called "paleoconservative" American right. It's not an accident that Trump's political movement was named after the 30s era pro-Nazi America First organization. The war discredited must of those people but a significant minority remained convinced that America picked the wrong side and should have opted for Hitler against Churchill and Stalin.  Pat Buchanan was a notable proponent of that line of thought and managed to enter the mainstream of GOP politics and mount some serious presidential challenges.  He wrote a book that basically made the same argument that Cooper is now parroting, although toning down the more overtly Hitlery rhetoric.

Trumpism is really just Buchananism in a more populist/"outsider" guise.  Buchanan also broke with GOP orthodoxy to favor tariffs and protectionism, opposed NATO etc.

This is 100% showing my age and my political philosophy as a youth - but I remember Buchanan from CNN's Crossfire and the McLaughlin group and was an early fan.

Of course even by his 1992 Presidential run I was off-board (at the time Ross Perot was my man, even though he turned out to be kind-of crazy).  But the vaguely pro-Nazi, anti-NATO stuff turned me off even as a teen-ager.

[The Minsky Moment]

I can think of another.  The person is opposed to the policy of housing immigrants at state expense.

Why would such a person want to burn down the houses? The Venn diagram of budget hawks and real estate vandals has little overlap.

[Admiral Yi]

Why would such a person want to burn down the houses? The Venn diagram of budget hawks and real estate vandals has little overlap.

As a symbolic gesture of their hostility to the policy.

[grumbler]

Why would such a person want to burn down the houses? The Venn diagram of budget hawks and real estate vandals has little overlap.

As a symbolic gesture of their hostility to the policy.

If you want to engage in symbolic protests of policies, you need to target the policy-makers.  No members of the British Cabinet would be incinerated by the firebombing of a hotel housing refugees.

[Sheilbh]

An American app by an American company does not feel like part of the American internet?

Yeah but lots of the Brit media have moved there because of the role Twitter played in the riots while the Americans haven't. Twitter is very much American internet if you're an English language user - BlueSky isn't, yet.

For your "enjoyment", this appears to have been yesterday's Twitter Thread of the Day - why Churchill, not Hitler, was the greatest villain of WWII.  This is by a podcaster, Darryl Cooper, who was recently on Tucker Carlson's podcast on a very similar theme (aka Nazi apologia).

Thrilled to see, as someone said online, the American right return to their roots: rehabilitating Harry Elmer Barnes

Its quite the pastiche of complaints, but boils down to A: UK's hard treatment of Germany after WWI drove Hitler to do it, B: Hitler made several offers of peace which Churchill ignored, and C: the real evil was communism anyways.

The thread has 14k likes and 3200 re-tweets.  It of course attracted a ton of criticism, but also a ton of support.

Some other choice lines:
"They [Nazi Germany] launched a war where they were completely unprepared for millions and millions of prisoners of war... and they just threw these people into camps and millions of people ended up dead." Millions of people "ended up dead" is a masterclass of the passive voice.

Also, on Churchill, "I think he was put in place by people, the financiers, by a media complex, that wanted to make sure that he was the guy who was representing Britain." I can only wonder who he means by "people" who are "financiers" and a "media complex".

This is also, incidentally, why a bit of me thinks fighting to preserve the Churchill myth isn't necessarily a bad idea - ultimately a myth that is at it's core about fighting Nazis is basically good. Reality can, and maybe should be complicated, but I really think keeping the myth that this country's greatest hour and foundation myth was coming together to fight Nazis is a good thing I just worry a little about bathwater and babies in demystifying those myths too much...

The atomic bombing of Japan has been endlessly debated.  As was the allied bombing of Germany.  Churchill, while generally viewed positively, has been deeply questioned over his dedication to maintaining the Empire and the Bengall famine in particular.

Yeah I mean I'd point out that even at the time the allied bombing of Germany was contested. Bomber Command did not receive a medal until the 2000s. Churchill's victory speech mentioned every campaign fought by British forces except Bomber Command - which caused Harris to turn down honours because he felt the contribution of his men was being deliberately diminished/swept under the carpet. I could be wrong but I think in all of the canon of war moves for a rainy Sunday afternoon there is no film about the allied bombers (excluding, say Dambusters, which is rather different) until Masters of the Air.

As a symbolic gesture of their hostility to the policy.

At the same time as there is a mob in one time literally trying to burn down one of those hotels? It's a very poorly timed symbolic gesture.

(I'd add that the problem here in terms of policy is that Labour banned asylum seekers from working while their claims were processed because of people disappearing into the grey economy; under the Tories claims processing ground to a halt so there was no longer sufficient space in the processing centres or in the, state-paid, housing which is why asylum seekers ended up being housed in hotels. The easiest way to avoid paying for housing asylum seekers is to process their claims promptly and, if it fails, to deport them - not defunding the system.)

[Admiral Yi]

12 O'clock High was first a movie then a black and white TV show.  I agree that it would be tough to make a movie about British firebombing of civilian areas.

[Razgovory]

Thrilled to see, as someone said online, the American right return to their roots: rehabilitating Harry Elmer Barnes

Okay, I had no idea who this was, so I looked him up in Wikipedia, and as is the custom, also looked up people he collaborated with.  I found out about Paul Rassinier, who was actually sent to Buchenwald, nearly died, and ended up becoming a Holocaust denier.  That is a fairly remarkable outcome.  

[Jacob]

Musk is an enemy to democracy:https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/elon-musk-trump-harris-high-status-males-4chan-b2606617.html

Elon Musk has used his large platform on X to promote a theory that a free-thinking "Republic" could only exist under the decision-making of "high status males" – and women or "low T men" would not be welcome in it.

On Sunday, Musk re-posted a screenshot of the theory – which appears to have been conceived on 4chan in 2021– on the social media site.

The theory, written by an anonymous user, suggests that the only people able to think freely are "high [testostrone] alpha males" and "aneurotypical people", and that these "high status males" should run a "Republic" that is "only for those who are free to think."

"People who can't defend themselves physically (women and low T men) parse information through a consensus filter as a safety mechanism," the post reads.

"Only high T alpha males and aneurotypical people (hey autists!) are actually free to parse new information with an objective 'is this true?' filter," it adds. "This is why a Republic of high status males is best for decision making. Democratic, but a democracy only for those who are free to think."

"Aneurotypical" is not a word but one can assume the original poster meant neurodivergent people.

[Crazy_Ivan80]

The books on musk's descent into madness will have so much source material they'll practically write themselves, especially with ai

[viper37]

Musk is an enemy to democracy:https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/elon-musk-trump-harris-high-status-males-4chan-b2606617.html

Elon Musk has used his large platform on X to promote a theory that a free-thinking "Republic" could only exist under the decision-making of "high status males" – and women or "low T men" would not be welcome in it.

On Sunday, Musk re-posted a screenshot of the theory – which appears to have been conceived on 4chan in 2021– on the social media site.

The theory, written by an anonymous user, suggests that the only people able to think freely are "high [testostrone] alpha males" and "aneurotypical people", and that these "high status males" should run a "Republic" that is "only for those who are free to think."

"People who can't defend themselves physically (women and low T men) parse information through a consensus filter as a safety mechanism," the post reads.

"Only high T alpha males and aneurotypical people (hey autists!) are actually free to parse new information with an objective 'is this true?' filter," it adds. "This is why a Republic of high status males is best for decision making. Democratic, but a democracy only for those who are free to think."

"Aneurotypical" is not a word but one can assume the original poster meant neurodivergent people.

So, he wants a version of Saudi Arabia ran by Andrew Tate for the US?

[Valmy]

So long as this Republic only exists on his shitty website that is fine by me.

Musk might want to start thinking and stop living in pathetic self pity at some point though.