The shit in Spain falls mainly in the fan

[The Larch]

Liberalism is getting crushed everywhere it seems. Ah well. We just have no constituency anymore.

On the contrary, the Madrid PP has always ran on a plattform of unrestrained economic liberalism. Why the results always end up with uglier and uglier versions of crony capitalism just eludes them...

I mean, PP's entire campaign was just saying "Liberty" over and over and over and over...

Edit: For instance, here you have their campaign mailing:

[Valmy]

Liberalism is getting crushed everywhere it seems. Ah well. We just have no constituency anymore.

On the contrary, the Madrid PP has always ran on a plattform of unrestrained economic liberalism. Why the results always end up with uglier and uglier versions of crony capitalism just eludes them...

I mean, PP's entire campaign was just saying "Liberty" over and over and over and over...

I meant in the form advanced by the centrist Democrats, FDP, Lib-Dems and other of the traditional liberal parties. Not Libertarian type stuff, which is usually just empty slogans in the hands of the right wing.

[Valmy]

Most of those parties have to choose between going right or left. It is just how it is going. Clearly Ciudadanos thought going right was the right answer and well...why vote for them if you can just vote for PP?

[The Larch]

Most of those parties have to choose between going right or left.

And they always, invariably, go right. So they're not really in the center. They might be a soft right, but they're right wing nonetheless. I'd love to be wrong but I struggle to remember one single time they actually went left.

Clearly Ciudadanos thought going right was the right answer and well...why vote for them if you can just vote for PP?

That was the culmination of Albert Rivera's brilliant strategy of tying themselves to PP in their grand strategy. If failed miserably, but it's commendable how a sizeable part of the remnants of the party keep on with that strategy even after being grossly humiliated and ignored by PP.

[Valmy]

And they always, invariably, go right. So they're not really in the center. They might be a soft right, but they're right wing nonetheless. I'd love to be wrong but I struggle to remember one single time they actually went left.

The Democrats seem to be.

[The Larch]

And they always, invariably, go right. So they're not really in the center. They might be a soft right, but they're right wing nonetheless. I'd love to be wrong but I struggle to remember one single time they actually went left.

The Democrats seem to be.

I'm talking European parlamentary politics here. US politics is a completely different beast.

[Sheilbh]

Liberalism is getting crushed everywhere it seems. Ah well. We just have no constituency anymore.

They work with and opened the door to Vox. Liberalism that's willing to work with the far-right deserves to be crushed everywhere.

I meant in the form advanced by the centrist Democrats, FDP, Lib-Dems and other of the traditional liberal parties. Not Libertarian type stuff, which is usually just empty slogans in the hands of the right wing.

I'm fine with the Dems but the FDP have also flirted with AfD (it is a theme across Europe for the liberal parties) and the Lib Dems were, of course, a part of the Cameron government that's been more or less entirely discredited (though it did get glowing write-ups at the time from the Economist).

[mongers]

south is left, north is right

Sounds like that one WW1 game.

Yeah the one Tamas was so effusive about.

[garbon]

south is left, north is right

Sounds like that one WW1 game.

Yeah the one Tamas was so effusive about.

When you explain a joke...

[celedhring]

And Pablo Iglesias just said that he's leaving politics. 

All those backstabbings and purges to end up like this?

I'll believe it when I see it.

I gotta say I quite like Yolanda Díaz, who's supposed to replace him.

[celedhring]

Most of those parties have to choose between going right or left.

And they always, invariably, go right. So they're not really in the center. They might be a soft right, but they're right wing nonetheless. I'd love to be wrong but I struggle to remember one single time they actually went left.

It is so weird. Let's not forget they were founded as a sort-of splinter party from the Catalan SocDems. 

[The Larch]

Most of those parties have to choose between going right or left.

And they always, invariably, go right. So they're not really in the center. They might be a soft right, but they're right wing nonetheless. I'd love to be wrong but I struggle to remember one single time they actually went left.

It is so weird. Let's not forget they were founded as a sort-of splinter party from the Catalan SocDems.

That might have been their beginnings, but they were soon taken over by PP rejects like Rivera and Girauta. I always found curious how their supposed intelectual founders basically disappeared from the scene as soon as the party started picking up steam.

[celedhring]

Rivera was their first SecGen 

But they were quite different. Yes, they were a bit of a single-issue party ("Catalan nationalism SUCKS"), but outside of that they were definitely left-leaning. During the years of the Catalan left-wing tripartite, they sided many times with the government on social issues.

Then they went national, started recruiting a bunch of PP rejects, some liberals and several "liberals", and eventually purged the Soc-Dem wing of the party. I know it was hollow by that time, but the party still officially defined itself as "social-democrat" until 2017.

[The Larch]

Rivera was their first SecGen 

But they were quite different. Yes, they were a bit of a single-issue party ("Catalan nationalism SUCKS"), but outside of that they were definitely left-leaning. During the years of the Catalan left-wing tripartite, they sided many times with the government on social issues.

Then they went national, started recruiting a bunch of PP rejects, some liberals and several "liberals", and eventually purged the Soc-Dem wing of the party. I know it was hollow by that time, but the party still officially defined itself as "social-democrat" until 2017.

And he was already a PP reject by then, although I'll grant you that he was a basically irrelevant one. 

I meant basically what happened with the group of public personalities that launched the platform from which Ciudadanos was built up. AFAIK none of them actually amounted to anything within the party once it was formed, right? At that point any credential, however flimsy, about them being soc-dems went IMO out of the window.

[celedhring]

That was out of their own volition though, most of the founders of the platform said they didn't intend to join the party, just support it from outside.

They were quite involved during the first years, appearing on the campaign trail and such.