The shit in Spain falls mainly in the fan

[Maladict]

So, it looks like we're a global power in polarization 

-graph-

Dutch are chill.

It probably has more to do with having a very fractured political system. Given there are 15 other parties, some of them closely aligned with yours, you're bound to feel positive/neutral towards some of them.

[celedhring]

So, today is the 90th anniversary of the proclamation of the Second Spanish Republic.

It ended with a tragedy, and I believe it has been excessively romanticized by part of the Spanish left, but at the same time it was possibly the biggest jump forward of Spain towards liberalism since 1812 (which also ultimately failed). Free and proper elections, abortion, laicism, women's vote, divorce... those things were unthinkable just a few years prior - and would become unthinkable again after 1939.

[The Larch]

Concur about it all. It seems that this country can only take big steps in progress after a dramatic failure int he first try. And to add to the issue of its excessive romantization by the left, it's also ironic how it is still somehow demonized by the right even to this day. It's truly part of our own brand of culture wars.

[The Larch]

Things are getting heated up over here. Yesterday we had death threats being mailed to the Interior minister, the head of the Guardia Civil and Pablo Iglesias, the leader of Podemos:

Spanish minister and leftist leader sent letters with death threats and bullets
"Your time is running out", reads the message for Pablo Iglesias of Unidas Podemos. Interior Ministry chief Fernando Grande-Marlaska and the head of the Civil Guard received similar packages

Two political leaders and the head of a law-enforcement agency in Spain have received letters containing death threats and bullets, according to reports to which EL PAÍS has had access and to information provided by the Interior Ministry.

The targets are María Gámez, head of the Civil Guard; Interior Minister Fernando Grande-Marlaska of the Socialist Party (PSOE) and Pablo Iglesias, head of the leftist party Unidas Podemos and a candidate in the upcoming Madrid regional election, a race that he joined after stepping down as a deputy prime minister from the PSOE-Unidas Podemos coalition government.

"You have 10 days to resign. The days of laughing at us are over. National Police. Civil Guard. Time is not on your side for the taponazos [very loud gunfire or explosion]," reads an anonymous letter postmarked April 19 and addressed to Grande-Marlaska. Inside the envelope were two 7.62x51mm bullets, according to the police report filed by the minister. An investigation is underway to identify the sender.

Civil Guard chief Gámez received a similar, handwritten message a day earlier, although it was also postmarked April 19. In this case, there was no mention of police forces although it used the term taponazo once more. There was one 7.62mm bullet inside the envelope.

Sources at Unidas Podemos on Thursday confirmed that Pablo Iglesias had received a letter containing "a serious death threat" but had not yet filed a formal complaint. The same sources added that this is not the first time that Iglesias has been sent messages of this nature.

"The Interior Ministry has received a letter addressed to me containing death threats against me and my family," the political leader revealed later on Twitter. He included an image of the missive, which carried the following message written in capital letters and without punctuation marks: "Pablo Iglesias Turrión, you have let our parents and grandparents die. Your wife, your parents and you are sentenced to the death penalty. Your time is running out." The party originally said that it contained two rounds of the type used with Spanish CETME rifles, but Iglesias himself said there were four.

"This is just another consequence of normalizing and whitewashing the hate speech of the far right. And it is also a consequence of impunity," said Iglesias on Twitter, lamenting that there has been "not a single arrest" over the attack on his party's headquarters in Cartagena (Murcia) with a Molotov cocktail in early April.

Iglesias also noted that a former member of La Legión, an elite military unit, "got off scot-free" after firing live ammunition at photographs of government members in front of a camera and laughing about it. He also mentioned the lack of legal consequences for the retired members of the military who talked about executing 26 million "red" Spaniards on a social media chat group. "How can they not feel absolute impunity to send us death threats with assault weapon bullets?"

Iglesias went on to say that the attacks are not just against him and his family but about "you, your right to vote for whomever you like and to exercise your freedom. They are threatening democracy."

The PSOE candidate in the Madrid election, Ángel Gabilondo, turned to Twitter to show support for all three targets of the death threats. "Hate speech and divisiveness have very serious consequences for our democracy. Let's avoid an escalation of cruelty."

Mónica García, the contender for the small leftist party Más Madrid, wrote that "there is no room for hate and violence" in society.

This morning there was a radio debate for the Madrid regional elections, in which Pablo Iglesias is taking part, and when right at the start the topic came up all participants condemned the death threat sent to him, except the Vox candidate, which not only didn't condemn it but even doubted its veracity. After this, Iglesias left, with the debate host as well as the other participants in the debate trying to convince him to stay and the Vox candidate mocking them on air. They took a break and after that the other two leftist candidates decided to leave as well, with the Ciudadanos candidate trying to convince them to stay. At this point the host declared that it was better to abandon the debate, with the Vox candidate being heard in the background complaining about "media dictatorship".

During the whole fracas, the regional wing of PP (whose candidate didn't take part in the debate, as she only accepted to take part in the first debate that took place earlier this week) sent a mocking tweet aimed at Iglesias' quitting the debate, which was deleted shortly afterwards but not soon enough for it not to make the online rounds. It remains to be seen what will happen with the two tv debates that were still expected to be held next week, as the leftist candidates have stated that they won't take part in any new debate in which Vox participates. The rest of the campaign (voting will take place in early may) will be quite... interesting, to say the least.

Edit: Here's an article on the debate fracas, and with some more background info.

Pablo Iglesias walks out of Madrid debate in clash over death threat
Rocío Monasterio of far-right Vox party had cast doubt on threat sent to Podemos leader and his family

The Unidas Podemos leader and former Spanish deputy prime minister, Pablo Iglesias, has walked out of a Madrid regional election debate after the candidate for the far-right Vox party cast doubt on the death threat he and his family had received along with four assault rifle bullets.

Iglesias revealed on Thursday that he had been mailed the bullets and a threat, which read: "You have let our parents and grandparents die. Your wife, your parents and you are sentenced to capital punishment. Your time is running out."

Similar threats were sent to Fernando Grande-Marlaska, who serves as interior minister in Spain's Socialist-led coalition government, and María Gámez, the head of the Guardia Civil police force.

Iglesias was appearing in a Cadena Ser radio debate on Friday ahead of next month's Madrid's regional election when the Vox candidate, Rocío Monasterio, accused him of hypocrisy for refusing to condemn the assaults her party members had suffered on the campaign trail.

She said Vox condemned all violence, but "Spaniards just don't believe anything this government says." She had also sought to cast doubt on Iglesias in an interview earlier on Friday, when she said: "I don't believe much of what Pablo Iglesias says."

Iglesias, who left the central government to fight the Madrid election, had asked Monasterio to retract her comments when the debate began. When she refused, he said the debate risked "whitewashing the extreme right" and normalising their arguments, and left the studio.

The Socialist party candidate, Ángel Gabilondo, and Mónica García, who is running for the leftwing Más Madrid party, pulled out of the debate in solidarity with Iglesias.

Spain's prime minister, Pedro Sánchez, condemned the death threats and described Iglesias, Grande-Marlaska and Gámez as committed public servants. "In the face of any disagreement, words," he said. "In the face of threats and violence, justice and democracy."

The election, which will be held on 4 May, has served to aggravate Spain's already bitter political tensions. The region's incumbent president, Isabel Díaz Ayuso of the conservative People's party, is expected to retain power, but Vox has attempted to win over rightwing voters with another aggressive and provocative campaign.

Riot police had to separate protesters and Vox supporters earlier this month after the party staged a rally in the traditionally leftwing working-class Madrid neighbourhood of Vallecas.

Prosecutors also opened an investigation on Tuesday to determine whether a Vox campaign poster constituted a hate crime. The poster contrasted a picture of an older white woman with that of a hooded, masked, and dark-skinned male.

Its caption incorrectly suggested that refugees and migrant children in state care receive 10 times more in benefits each month than the average Spanish grandmother does in pension payments.

It is not the first time Vox has sought to demonise foreigners. In the run-up to the general election in November 2019, its leader, Santiago Abascal, falsely suggested that 70% of gang rapes in Spain were committed by foreigners.

Monasterio had claimed earlier in the day that unaccompanied foreign minors made the streets unsafe and posed "a serious problem in our neighbourhoods".

[Sheilbh]

Query: why is Madrid right-wing?

Is it just the region thing - while the city is left-wing?

[celedhring]

Query: why is Madrid right-wing?

Is it just the region thing - while the city is left-wing?

It's more complicated. The southern areas of the region are lefty, they are pretty working class. The north and west of the region leans right, generally wealthier areas. The city splits similarly - south is left, north is right - and it's close to 50/50.

The Madrid left also has no feet left after repeatedly shoothing them with hollow-point ammo during the past two decades.

[Syt]

south is left, north is right

Sounds like that one WW1 game.

[The Larch]

Query: why is Madrid right-wing?

Is it just the region thing - while the city is left-wing?

It's more complicated. The southern areas of the region are lefty, they are pretty working class. The north and west of the region leans right, generally wealthier areas. The city splits similarly - south is left, north is right - and it's close to 50/50.

The Madrid left also has no feet left after repeatedly shoothing them with hollow-point ammo during the past two decades.

Add to that that PP has shamelessly molded the region in their image for decades already, massive corruption notwithstanding, which their electorate doesn't seem to care the slightest about. It's not such a surprise, they've been running the region for close to 30 years already. They could put a monkey int he ballot (and Ayuso might be the closest to it that we've seen so far) and throngs of people will vote for them. Madrid itself is a pretty right-wing city, which is odd for a capital city.

[celedhring]

Madrid elected a left-wing mayor not so long ago, and the left carried 46-47% of the vote in the last general election. So I'd say the city itself is rather close.

But as both city and region have accumulated wealth they have indeed tilted towards the right.

[The Larch]

Madrid elected a left-wing mayor not so long ago, and the left carried 46-47% of the vote in the last general election. So I'd say the city itself is rather close.

But as both city and region have accumulated wealth they have indeed tilted towards the right.

That was a 4 year blip that needed the entire leftish spectrum to ally together to kick PP out (which was still the 1st party in voting) and the "experiment" fell apart right afterwards. Otherwise PP has kept the city hall since 1991, with absolute majorities for 24 straight years.

[The Larch]

By the way, let's shed one (1) single tear for Ciudadanos, who has been fully fagocited by PP, just as was expected. Their group in parliament must feel like dead men walking. What a train wreck of a party.

[The Larch]

And Pablo Iglesias just said that he's leaving politics. 

All those backstabbings and purges to end up like this?

[Sheilbh]

By the way, let's shed one (1) single tear for Ciudadanos, who has been fully fagocited by PP, just as was expected. Their group in parliament must feel like dead men walking. What a train wreck of a party.

[The Larch]

By the way, let's shed one (1) single tear for Ciudadanos, who has been fully fagocited by PP, just as was expected. Their group in parliament must feel like dead men walking. What a train wreck of a party.

Their campaign might have been the saddest I've ever seen. They were humilliated by PP in every ocasion they had during their coalition government. PP kicked them off in order to call elections and they ran on a campaign of... allying themselves to PP again, who barely recognized their existance and openly manifested their willingness to go hard right and ally with Vox instead. It's the political version of the battered wife syndrome.

[Valmy]

Liberalism is getting crushed everywhere it seems. Ah well. We just have no constituency anymore.