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The shit in Spain falls mainly in the fan

Started by celedhring, September 06, 2017, 02:44:20 PM

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The Larch

Quote from: Tamas on January 29, 2020, 11:34:50 AM
Quote from: The Larch on January 29, 2020, 11:23:08 AM
It's the same bullshit selfish argument that the Lega made back in the Lega Nord times, as well as the Flemish independentists, the "we're rich and the rest of the country smooches form us". Glad to know that you support that kind of assholeness, Tamas.

But the thing is -again, I am largely ignorant on the issue- they consider themselves a different people from Spaniards. Ignoring the lack of merits in that argument after being in the same country for half a millennia, not wanting to be paying makes more sense that way.

If you admit ignorance on the topic, why do you accept their argument?

The Brain

The Wilsonian legacy of being sexually aroused by ethnically pure countries.
Women want me. Men want to be with me.

Tamas

Quote from: The Larch on January 29, 2020, 11:36:30 AM
Quote from: Tamas on January 29, 2020, 11:34:50 AM
Quote from: The Larch on January 29, 2020, 11:23:08 AM
It's the same bullshit selfish argument that the Lega made back in the Lega Nord times, as well as the Flemish independentists, the "we're rich and the rest of the country smooches form us". Glad to know that you support that kind of assholeness, Tamas.

But the thing is -again, I am largely ignorant on the issue- they consider themselves a different people from Spaniards. Ignoring the lack of merits in that argument after being in the same country for half a millennia, not wanting to be paying makes more sense that way.

If you admit ignorance on the topic, why do you accept their argument?

I like FC Barcelona and I HATE HATE HATE Real Madrid.  :P

The Larch

Quote from: Tamas on January 29, 2020, 11:38:51 AM
Quote from: The Larch on January 29, 2020, 11:36:30 AM
Quote from: Tamas on January 29, 2020, 11:34:50 AM
Quote from: The Larch on January 29, 2020, 11:23:08 AM
It's the same bullshit selfish argument that the Lega made back in the Lega Nord times, as well as the Flemish independentists, the "we're rich and the rest of the country smooches form us". Glad to know that you support that kind of assholeness, Tamas.

But the thing is -again, I am largely ignorant on the issue- they consider themselves a different people from Spaniards. Ignoring the lack of merits in that argument after being in the same country for half a millennia, not wanting to be paying makes more sense that way.

If you admit ignorance on the topic, why do you accept their argument?

I like FC Barcelona and I HATE HATE HATE Real Madrid.  :P

Just as well as me, and surely much less than cel, and we don't support independence because of that.  :P

Tamas

Well, from my distant vantage point it was reason enough.  :D


The Larch

Well, your lulz are other people's lives, so take it as a learning opportunity.


Barrister

Quote from: The Larch on January 29, 2020, 11:36:30 AM
Quote from: Tamas on January 29, 2020, 11:34:50 AM
Quote from: The Larch on January 29, 2020, 11:23:08 AM
It's the same bullshit selfish argument that the Lega made back in the Lega Nord times, as well as the Flemish independentists, the "we're rich and the rest of the country smooches form us". Glad to know that you support that kind of assholeness, Tamas.

But the thing is -again, I am largely ignorant on the issue- they consider themselves a different people from Spaniards. Ignoring the lack of merits in that argument after being in the same country for half a millennia, not wanting to be paying makes more sense that way.

If you admit ignorance on the topic, why do you accept their argument?

I don't necessarily accept their arguments, but I feel like they should have the right to make that decision themselves.
Posts here are my own private opinions.  I do not speak for my employer.

garbon

Quote from: Barrister on January 29, 2020, 01:14:37 PM
Quote from: The Larch on January 29, 2020, 11:36:30 AM
Quote from: Tamas on January 29, 2020, 11:34:50 AM
Quote from: The Larch on January 29, 2020, 11:23:08 AM
It's the same bullshit selfish argument that the Lega made back in the Lega Nord times, as well as the Flemish independentists, the "we're rich and the rest of the country smooches form us". Glad to know that you support that kind of assholeness, Tamas.

But the thing is -again, I am largely ignorant on the issue- they consider themselves a different people from Spaniards. Ignoring the lack of merits in that argument after being in the same country for half a millennia, not wanting to be paying makes more sense that way.

If you admit ignorance on the topic, why do you accept their argument?

I don't necessarily accept their arguments, but I feel like they should have the right to make that decision themselves.

Are we talking when they are given all the facts?
"I've never been quite sure what the point of a eunuch is, if truth be told. It seems to me they're only men with the useful bits cut off."
I drank because I wanted to drown my sorrows, but now the damned things have learned to swim.

Valmy

Quote from: Barrister on January 29, 2020, 01:14:37 PM
I don't necessarily accept their arguments, but I feel like they should have the right to make that decision themselves.

Well they have never had majority support in any election but they continue to act as if they do. They don't really respect the opinions of all the citizens of Catalonia because I suspect they only consider their supporters to be real Catalonians.
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

Iormlund

Quote from: Barrister on January 29, 2020, 01:14:37 PM
I don't necessarily accept their arguments, but I feel like they should have the right to make that decision themselves.

So not even the Brexit debacle has persuaded you against the dangers of emotionally-fuelled referenda?

And why just themselves? Such a decision would directly affect me as well. Why shouldn't I get a vote?

Barrister

Quote from: Valmy on January 29, 2020, 01:21:35 PM
Quote from: Barrister on January 29, 2020, 01:14:37 PM
I don't necessarily accept their arguments, but I feel like they should have the right to make that decision themselves.

Well they have never had majority support in any election but they continue to act as if they do. They don't really respect the opinions of all the citizens of Catalonia because I suspect they only consider their supporters to be real Catalonians.

They've never had the opportunity to hold a definitive vote on the subject.
Posts here are my own private opinions.  I do not speak for my employer.

Valmy

Quote from: Barrister on January 29, 2020, 02:13:27 PM
They've never had the opportunity to hold a definitive vote on the subject.

They do it every election. The Separatist parties have never won a majority of the votes.
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

Barrister

Quote from: Iormlund on January 29, 2020, 01:55:08 PM
Quote from: Barrister on January 29, 2020, 01:14:37 PM
I don't necessarily accept their arguments, but I feel like they should have the right to make that decision themselves.

So not even the Brexit debacle has persuaded you against the dangers of emotionally-fuelled referenda?

And why just themselves? Such a decision would directly affect me as well. Why shouldn't I get a vote?

Even after the Brexit debacle, a small majority of Britons continue to support Brexit.  Sometimes people want to make an emotional decision, and they have that right to do so.

The entirety of Spain would have a say in the details of a theoretical Catalan independence, but we've long recognized the right to national self-determination.  Just because you're affected if your wife leaves you, that doesn't meant you get a say in her decision.
Posts here are my own private opinions.  I do not speak for my employer.

Valmy

I don't recognize that right. Group rights don't exist.

If I did I would have to admit the Confederacy was right because the people they were enslaving were a minority who would not have been able to outvote the majority. But I do not recognize that right. Individuals have rights, not national groups. The only way I personally would support Catalonia is if they could demonstrate that the individual rights of Catalonians were being abused in some way by the current Spanish state. That have not done that.
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

The Brain

Quote from: Valmy on January 29, 2020, 02:43:53 PM
I don't recognize that right. Group rights don't exist.

If I did I would have to admit the Confederacy was right because the people they were enslaving were a minority who would not have been able to outvote the majority. But I do not recognize that right. Individuals have rights, not national groups. The only way I personally would support Catalonia is if they could demonstrate that the individual rights of Catalonians were being abused in some way by the current Spanish state. That have not done that.

But, but, what about the ethnic purity of citizens?
Women want me. Men want to be with me.