The shit in Spain falls mainly in the fan

[The Larch]

It's the same bullshit selfish argument that the Lega made back in the Lega Nord times, as well as the Flemish independentists, the "we're rich and the rest of the country smooches form us". Glad to know that you support that kind of assholeness, Tamas.

But the thing is -again, I am largely ignorant on the issue- they consider themselves a different people from Spaniards. Ignoring the lack of merits in that argument after being in the same country for half a millennia, not wanting to be paying makes more sense that way.

If you admit ignorance on the topic, why do you accept their argument?

[The Brain]

The Wilsonian legacy of being sexually aroused by ethnically pure countries.

[Tamas]

It's the same bullshit selfish argument that the Lega made back in the Lega Nord times, as well as the Flemish independentists, the "we're rich and the rest of the country smooches form us". Glad to know that you support that kind of assholeness, Tamas.

But the thing is -again, I am largely ignorant on the issue- they consider themselves a different people from Spaniards. Ignoring the lack of merits in that argument after being in the same country for half a millennia, not wanting to be paying makes more sense that way.

If you admit ignorance on the topic, why do you accept their argument?

I like FC Barcelona and I HATE HATE HATE Real Madrid. 

[The Larch]

It's the same bullshit selfish argument that the Lega made back in the Lega Nord times, as well as the Flemish independentists, the "we're rich and the rest of the country smooches form us". Glad to know that you support that kind of assholeness, Tamas.

But the thing is -again, I am largely ignorant on the issue- they consider themselves a different people from Spaniards. Ignoring the lack of merits in that argument after being in the same country for half a millennia, not wanting to be paying makes more sense that way.

If you admit ignorance on the topic, why do you accept their argument?

I like FC Barcelona and I HATE HATE HATE Real Madrid. 

Just as well as me, and surely much less than cel, and we don't support independence because of that. 

[Tamas]

Well, from my distant vantage point it was reason enough. 

[The Larch]

Well, your lulz are other people's lives, so take it as a learning opportunity.

[Barrister]

It's the same bullshit selfish argument that the Lega made back in the Lega Nord times, as well as the Flemish independentists, the "we're rich and the rest of the country smooches form us". Glad to know that you support that kind of assholeness, Tamas.

But the thing is -again, I am largely ignorant on the issue- they consider themselves a different people from Spaniards. Ignoring the lack of merits in that argument after being in the same country for half a millennia, not wanting to be paying makes more sense that way.

If you admit ignorance on the topic, why do you accept their argument?

I don't necessarily accept their arguments, but I feel like they should have the right to make that decision themselves.

[garbon]

It's the same bullshit selfish argument that the Lega made back in the Lega Nord times, as well as the Flemish independentists, the "we're rich and the rest of the country smooches form us". Glad to know that you support that kind of assholeness, Tamas.

But the thing is -again, I am largely ignorant on the issue- they consider themselves a different people from Spaniards. Ignoring the lack of merits in that argument after being in the same country for half a millennia, not wanting to be paying makes more sense that way.

If you admit ignorance on the topic, why do you accept their argument?

I don't necessarily accept their arguments, but I feel like they should have the right to make that decision themselves.

Are we talking when they are given all the facts?

[Valmy]

I don't necessarily accept their arguments, but I feel like they should have the right to make that decision themselves.

Well they have never had majority support in any election but they continue to act as if they do. They don't really respect the opinions of all the citizens of Catalonia because I suspect they only consider their supporters to be real Catalonians.

[Iormlund]

I don't necessarily accept their arguments, but I feel like they should have the right to make that decision themselves.

So not even the Brexit debacle has persuaded you against the dangers of emotionally-fuelled referenda?

And why just themselves? Such a decision would directly affect me as well. Why shouldn't I get a vote?

[Barrister]

I don't necessarily accept their arguments, but I feel like they should have the right to make that decision themselves.

Well they have never had majority support in any election but they continue to act as if they do. They don't really respect the opinions of all the citizens of Catalonia because I suspect they only consider their supporters to be real Catalonians.

They've never had the opportunity to hold a definitive vote on the subject.

[Valmy]

They've never had the opportunity to hold a definitive vote on the subject.

They do it every election. The Separatist parties have never won a majority of the votes.

[Barrister]

I don't necessarily accept their arguments, but I feel like they should have the right to make that decision themselves.

So not even the Brexit debacle has persuaded you against the dangers of emotionally-fuelled referenda?

And why just themselves? Such a decision would directly affect me as well. Why shouldn't I get a vote?

Even after the Brexit debacle, a small majority of Britons continue to support Brexit.  Sometimes people want to make an emotional decision, and they have that right to do so.

The entirety of Spain would have a say in the details of a theoretical Catalan independence, but we've long recognized the right to national self-determination.  Just because you're affected if your wife leaves you, that doesn't meant you get a say in her decision.

[Valmy]

I don't recognize that right. Group rights don't exist.

If I did I would have to admit the Confederacy was right because the people they were enslaving were a minority who would not have been able to outvote the majority. But I do not recognize that right. Individuals have rights, not national groups. The only way I personally would support Catalonia is if they could demonstrate that the individual rights of Catalonians were being abused in some way by the current Spanish state. That have not done that.

[The Brain]

I don't recognize that right. Group rights don't exist.

If I did I would have to admit the Confederacy was right because the people they were enslaving were a minority who would not have been able to outvote the majority. But I do not recognize that right. Individuals have rights, not national groups. The only way I personally would support Catalonia is if they could demonstrate that the individual rights of Catalonians were being abused in some way by the current Spanish state. That have not done that.

But, but, what about the ethnic purity of citizens?