The shit in Spain falls mainly in the fan

[The Brain]

Maybe it's best to let the Moors take it again.

[Eddie Teach]

Because North Africa is a model of peace and stability.

[The Brain]

Because North Africa is a model of peace and stability.

That's because of colonialism, which wouldn't apply to Spain.

[Duque de Bragança]

Because North Africa is a model of peace and stability.

That's because of colonialism, which wouldn't apply to Spain.

Franco must be spinning in his grave. Though his Moorish troops did bring some kind of "stability". 

[celedhring]

Tomorrow's the day. A little sitrep:

1) The Catalan Supreme Court has decreed the closure of all polling stations. As a response, separatists have begun occupying them to keep them open throughout the night and passively resist closure/eviction efforts from the police tomorrow. According to one of their orgs, 25% of polling stations are occupied atm.

2) The regional police has orders from the court to show up tomorrow morning and attempt to close the stations and seize electoral materials. Right now, it's a bit of a question mark how "forceful" their attempts at doing that will be.

3) Today the Spanish police raided the regional government's IT offices, in and attempt to shut down telematic tools for counting votes, etc...

4) The Spanish nationalists showed up for the party today ( ) with a sizable demo in downtown Barcelona that ended up with a bit of bother.

Tomorrow's going to be a long day.

[celedhring]

Aaaaaaand the fun is on! 

[Liep]

https://twitter.com/pablo_iglesias_/status/914401890682761216

Seems a little more brutal than what is needed.

[celedhring]

I went down to make sure my parents don't get in any shit, which they are prone to since getting into trouble with the cops makes them feel young.

I am having trouble processing all of this, myself.

[Iormlund]

I don't get the strategy Rajoy is following here at all. Let the voting take place. Send in plain clothes officers to gather evidence (eg. illicit use of census), then quietly start the arrests a couple weeks from now.

It's not like the results are going to matter anyway.

[celedhring]

It's idiotic.

My parents tell me the voting system is down too, and it seems it's been hacked. Sending in the riot police to make a show of force is pointless.

[garbon]

I don't get the strategy Rajoy is following here at all. Let the voting take place. Send in plain clothes officers to gather evidence (eg. illicit use of census), then quietly start the arrests a couple weeks from now.

It's not like the results are going to matter anyway.

Yeah it seems like the Spanish government is doing all they can to escalate the situation.

[Crazy_Ivan80]

I don't get the strategy Rajoy is following here at all. Let the voting take place. Send in plain clothes officers to gather evidence (eg. illicit use of census), then quietly start the arrests a couple weeks from now.

Or instead Spain could accept that it has a problem and that the 2010 court decision to gut the Catalan autonomous statute wasn't the smartest idea? Same for refusing to any negotiations despite 30+ (so I read) requests from the Catalans to have talks?
If the Catalans can get 100.000s, and on more than one occasion a million+, people on the streets and that year after year to demand independence than it's Spain that has a problem. Not the Catalans.

especially if this is correct (seems to me that the US threw of British yoke for less, at least in popular mythology)

http://de-bron.org/content/rajoy-zaait-verdeeldheid-en-onrust
Welke autonomie was afgesproken voor Catalonië?

De Spaanse grondwet van 1978 erkende Catalonië als een aparte natie (naast Baskenland en Galicië). Het autonomiestatuut werd goedgekeurd in 2006 door zowel het Spaanse als het Catalaanse parlement en door een 74% van de Catalaanse stemmen bij een referendum. Dat bevestigt dat Catalonië een autonoom bestuur heeft, uitgezonderd voor defensie, grenzen en terrorisme. Die ruime autonomie werd echter betwist, vooral door de Partido Popular (PP) van Rajoy.

Het Spaanse oppergerechtshof oordeelde dan in 2010 dat 14 artikels van het autonomiestatuut ongrondwettelijk waren; het legde ook beperkingen op aan 27 andere. Het vernietigde onder meer de formele waarborg op het recht op zelfbestuur, de fiscale autonomie en de afgesproken beperkingen op financiële transfers. Het stelde voorts dat de erkenning als natie geen enkel legaal belang had.

my translation:
What autonomy did Catalonia get?

The Spanish Constitution of  1978 recognized Catalonia as a separate nation (alongside the Basques and Galicia). This autonomous statute was approved in 2006 by both Spanish and Catalan parliaments and with a 74% majority of Catalan votes, through a referendum. This agreement confirms that Catalonia has a separate administration (government?) except for defense, borders and counter-terrorism. This far-reaching autonomy was contested however, mainly by Rajoy's Partido Popular.

The Spanish highest court judged in 2010 that 14 articles of this statute were unconstitutional; it also put restrictions on 27 other articles. It destroyed, among others, the formal guarantee to the right of self-government, fiscal autonomy and the agree on limits to fiscal transfers. It also states that the recognition as a nation was of no legal consequence whatsoever.

you're right that this round solves nothing though. The issue will come back and back and back until Spain agrees to sit down with the Catalans and negotiate a new deal or until Catalonia gains its freedom.

[Iormlund]

Limits to fiscal transfers are completely idiotic. Transfers are a function of demographics.

The overwhelming majority of job openings for qualified young people require you to move to Barcelona or Madrid. Rural areas were already depopulated, now small towns are suffering the same process.
It is hard enough as it is to afford a flat in Barcelona. It would be impossible if every other Spanish pensioner had to move there because Extremadura, Castille or Galicia had no more money for pensions or health services.

[Duque de Bragança]

Le Figaro.fr reports Catalan independentists are holding carnations in demonstrations in a parallel to the Carnation Revolution.

I really don't think Rajoy is some kind of Marcelo Caetano...

[chipwich]

So you have it as a consultative referendum.

Lets have a referendum to bring back the Confederacy and make black people slaves again.

Don't worry it's just consultative.