The shit in Spain falls mainly in the fan

[DGuller]

Please explain to me how the provinces of the interior can "address" age and population density imbalances in such a way that transfers are not necessary.

Looks like anyone who's young enough to be mobile wants to move as far away from Portugese as possible.  Makes sense.

[viper37]

Please explain to me how the provinces of the interior can "address" age and population density imbalances in such a way that transfers are not necessary.

age and population density, no.
but we're talking GDP output here.

I don't know about Spain.  But if I look at Quebec?
- Exploiting natural resources instead of leaving it in the ground.  We have gaz&oil, we refuse to take it out.
- Reducing bureaucracy, the burden of regulations affecting our productivity.
- Having a decent healthcare system that works.  I know people point at the doctor's wages right now, but it was the same before the last round of increase, it still wasn't working.
- Having a decent education system that removes religion from school and place science&facts where it should be.  Confessional schools should still be mandated by State to offer the same education as the public school, religious classes must come on top of that, not instead of a math class.
- Lowering taxes for the middle class to stimulate investments&consumption
- Lowering taxes for property transfer inside the State compared to selling to foreigners as to create an incentive to keep property local
- Force union transparency so members can see what their Union does with the money they collect.
- Do not hesitate to investigate and arrest union members when a crime is suspected, the same way mafia groups are infiltrated and dismantled
- fight corruption, don't accept it anywhere
- elevate requirements to get professional diplomas and make sure the appropriate resource are there for the students with learning troubles
- encourage excellency at school by creating classes of advanced students where they learn faster than the others.
- promote urban density rather than expansion into agricultural lands
- use Federal and State government money to fund important infrastructure projects in cities and rural areas but do not provide funding for management of such project (like urban transports, cities should find a way to finance the operating costs, but I don't mind if we all pay for the buses/metro/trains themselves)
- promote free market and competition whenever possible instead of rules&regulations designed to create barriers on entry.  Government regulation may be needed to keep a market fair, but they shouldn't be designed to needlessly increase costs of operations
- diversify the economy, do not rely on a single type of industry for designated area.  My home town relied on Bombardier for years to insure its growth.  It took us too decade to accept things would never be the same. Now, it's moving, but they still have a tendancy to look at the past by solely promoting one type of industry with one type of manual workers instead of seeking to attract service businesses too.

[Crazy_Ivan80]

Looks like anyone who's young enough to be mobile wants to move as far away from Portugese as possible.  Makes sense.

it's the beachrubbings...

[Liep]

No vote was held today says Rajoy

https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2017/oct/01/catalan-independence-referendum-spain-catalonia-vote-live

His actions make no sense.

[celedhring]

He's fucked. He failed both the die-hards that wanted the vote not to take place whatever the cost, and the moderates preferred to let the thing happen, call it for the bogus vote it is, and then try a political approach.

[Iormlund]

Yep. That's a pretty accurate assessment.

His problem is that he usually lets things simmer down, but this time he lost control of the situation once a district judge ordered the Civil Guard to arrest the plotters and raid the Generalitat's offices - which ended in a clusterfuck in downtown Barcelona. From that point on he was completely outplayed.

[celedhring]

Yep. That's a pretty accurate assessment.

His problem is that he usually lets things simmer down, but this time he lost control of the situation once a district judge ordered the Civil Guard to arrest the plotters and raid the Generalitat's offices - which ended in a clusterfuck in downtown Barcelona. From that point on he was completely outplayed.

I think he was under big pressure from the more right wing circles in the party and media to bring down the fury of god on the separatists after he let the 2014 vote happen - vote which was then happily ignored by everyone.

[Drakken]

He's fucked. He failed both the die-hards that wanted the vote not to take place whatever the cost, and the moderates preferred to let the thing happen, call it for the bogus vote it is, and then try a political approach.

Indeed. The political approach seems now dead in the water. It would have worked while using force was still an last-resort option, but now that the latter's been used and we have almost 800 wounded?

We might coat in whatever language you want, in the end the Catalonian governement is now in effect in a state of secession, unless the numbers are dumbfoundingly against separating. And yet, the Catalonian separatists now have the advantage - they are widely portrayed now as victims on the world stage.

His only options remaining now seems either to back down and look weak, and throw Spain even further into constitutional crisis (because that referendum, whatever we say, does remains unconstitutional), or go all-in and make a call for the unity of Spain against the Catalonian government's "open revolt" to keep the die-hards' backing. Doing a Cameron, i.e. go to the King and resign would just throw the government further into chaos.

Rajoy tried to play the brinksmanship's game, but he failed abysmally. No one can back down here now without admitting utter defeat.

[celedhring]

The referendum in itself is a sham, I guess they'll announce results later this evening but I predict something like 3 million turnout with less than 10% of "No" vote, which nobody will believe. There are already precincts reporting more votes than people actually live there. It's hilarious.

Now the separatist camp has its own choice to make. Proceed with an UDI (the referendum is supposedly binding), or back down from it and use the political clout they just gained to exact concessions or an actual referendum. They'll be under big pressure from their own diehards to declare independence right now, and I don't think any single western nation would recognize it, losing a lot of the capital they just gained.

[Iormlund]

A referendum is not a realistic option. The Constitutional Court will declare it null and void in minutes. Reforming the Constitution might have worked long-term if the Catalonian separatists hadn't gone for the confrontation game, but that way is long gone.

The only choice Rajoy has is how far he goes against the Generalitat. He can do nothing, suspend autonomy and anything in between. But his hand might be forced by the judiciary. Thousands of people are now technically implicated in crimes.

[Drakken]

The referendum in itself is a sham, I guess they'll announce results later this evening but I predict something like 3 million turnout with less than 10% of "No" vote, which nobody will believe. There are already precincts reporting more votes than people actually live there. It's hilarious.

I read somewhere that the consign was given by anti-secessionist groups in Catalonia to refrain from voting. Was this true?

[Drakken]

A referendum is not a realistic option. The Constitutional Court will declare it null and void in minutes. Reforming the Constitution might have worked long-term if the Catalonian separatists hadn't gone for the confrontation game, but that way is long gone.

The only choice Rajoy has is how far he goes against the Generalitat. He can do nothing, suspend autonomy and anything in between. But his hand might be forced by the judiciary. Thousands of people are now technically implicated in crimes.

Could arrest warrants be given by the Courts against the members of the Generalitat government? Or would this be impossible, for example if they are granted immunity?

Those who were arrested last week were all rather small fishes - middle people and local organizers. Members of the Generalitat seem to be left off the hook, so far.

[Iormlund]

The referendum in itself is a sham, I guess they'll announce results later this evening but I predict something like 3 million turnout with less than 10% of "No" vote, which nobody will believe. There are already precincts reporting more votes than people actually live there. It's hilarious.

I read somewhere that the consign was given by anti-secessionist groups in Catalonia to not go to vote. Was this true?

If you are against the independence then voting only hurts your position. It gives the process legitimacy.

A referendum is not a realistic option. The Constitutional Court will declare it null and void in minutes. Reforming the Constitution might have worked long-term if the Catalonian separatists hadn't gone for the confrontation game, but that way is long gone.

The only choice Rajoy has is how far he goes against the Generalitat. He can do nothing, suspend autonomy and anything in between. But his hand might be forced by the judiciary. Thousands of people are now technically implicated in crimes.

Could arrest warrants be given by the Courts against the members of the Generalitat government? Or would this be impossible, for example if they are granted immunity?

Those who were arrested last week were all rather small fishes - middle people and local organizers. Members of the Generalitat seem to be left off the hook, so far.

They are not immune to prosecution, but they can only be judged by the Catalonian Superior Court (which ordered today's police raids) or the Supreme Court.

[celedhring]

Catalan president announces UDI in the next few days.

Time to raid the supermarket!

[Crazy_Ivan80]

The EU won't be coming out of this unscathed either.
It's lack of condemnation of today's beatings probably cost it what was left of leverage over Poland and Hungary.