About those peaceful antifa protests...

[The Minsky Moment]

Racism was never a fully coherent set of belief.

It can't be because "race" itself lacks coherence.  The Nazis faced that problem all the time, whether dealing with those in their ranks with "impure" blood, dealing with their Japanese allies, or debating how much "Jewish blood" a WW1 vet could have before losing their status as a German.

You can see that confusion when McInnes (e.g.) calls Cory Booker white because he grew up in the suburbs and his parents was a white collar exec.  "white" is good and "black" is bad, but "black" can become "white" by reasons of social circumstance.  This is still flat out racism but just redefining the boundaries of "black" and "white" --boundaries that were never clear and sharp to begin with.

[Barrister]

They're anti-Islam for sure.  Not sure I've seen anything anti-semitic coming from them.

McInnes posted a video once entitled "Ten Things I Hate About Jews" (he later changed it to Israel).  He blamed Jews for the Holodomor.  Said after a trip to Israel he was becoming "anti-semitic".

[derspiess]

Then he turned around and said he liked jews and hated Nazis. He's a weird dude with an ultra-abrasive sense of humor. But I don't think he was speaking for the Proud Boys when he said it.

[Oexmelin]

So many jokers, these jolly alt-right fellows. A true riot. GET IT. RIOT.

[Admiral Yi]

Holodomor?

[Barrister]

Holodomor?

Mass murder of Ukrainians my Stalin in the 30s.  Anywhere from 3 to 10 million were killed through starvation.

[Admiral Yi]

Mass murder of Ukrainians my Stalin in the 30s.  Anywhere from 3 to 10 million were killed through starvation.

Thanks.

How's that evidence of Nazi sympathies?

[Oexmelin]

Because you blame Jews for it?

[Eddie Teach]

That's anti-Semitism, but shouldn't Nazis have a pro-German bias as well?

[Barrister]

Mass murder of Ukrainians my Stalin in the 30s.  Anywhere from 3 to 10 million were killed through starvation.

Thanks.

How's that evidence of Nazi sympathies?

I used it as an example of anti-semitism.

Generally, I find trying to argue about a label like "Nazi" is be pointless.  Calling someone a nazi should be restricted to people who use a swastika and call themselves nazis.

[Admiral Yi]

I've been thinking about the comparison between antifas and the Red Scare of the 50s.

In both cases the object of animus was thought, not action, in the sense of blowing up government buildings or assassinating officials or other leaders.  The fear in the 50s was that if Communism as a set of beliefs were allowed to be propagated unchecked, the unwashed masses would come to see it as desirable.  And once a sufficient number had been converted, inevitably our democratic institutions and practices would be undermined.  A number of posters here have described a similar dynamic at work with the normalization of fascist ideology.

I think we can all agree that violence is acceptable and legitimate to use to stop certain actions, like shooting up a synagogue.  But we don't all agree whether violence (including incarceration) is appropriate to stop dangerous speech.

So do we now rethink our condemnation of  the Red Scare, rethink our condemnation of expression of crypto-fascsim, or am I missing important differences between the two?

[The Brain]

To me the major dividing line is between people who think that any political violence decided upon should be performed by a democratic state under the laws, and people who think that political violence should be performed extralegally by private individuals.

[viper37]

It isn't bullshit, inflammatory or otherwise.  I don't particularly care if you believe myself or the other who have put forth the point.  I've seen it in person and read about numerous incidents throughout the country.

That is one problem.  Seeing the tree instead of the forest.  Something I've been accused of by Raz and Oex, in the past.
At what point do multiple events become a trend?  Until we get detailed, credible stories about it, I guess it's a matter of opinion.

What Oex posted, a link about how FBI shifted resources toward islamic terrorism after 3000 dead and 6000 injured isn't terribly informative.  There were 6 deads, 19 injured in the Quebec city mosque shooting.  The only significant racist act to be perprated in Quebec city for memory serves.   It didn't stop Montreal medias (and their readers) from claiming the city was a racist hotbed, filled with anti-muslim hate.  For weeks long, they had reports of muslim citizens fearful of their lives simply for being muslims.  The police was accused of turning a blind eye to right wing extremism (it was false, but it stayed), it was accused of racial profiling (it was also false, but who cares?), and reading about it, you'd swear every single muslim in Quebec city had a target painted on its back.
Everything was false of course, but who cares about the truth when it suits our needs? 

I fear it is the same here.

Cops shooting blacks is, imho, a clear indication that these officers are mostly racists and react accordingly.  Just like the 19th century lynching: in their minds, they are not killing an innocent, they are defending themselves (and society) against a dangerous criminal.

But from that, to infer, as Raz and Oex do, that most US cops turn a blind eye to racism, are racists themselves, or simply complacent is a big stretch, and it isn't supported by any analysis.

  Is it an official policy?  No.  No one is suggesting it is to my knowledge.  Is it a worrying trend that happens around the country?  Yes.  Does it mean all cops are bad?  Absolutely not.  I don't think anyone is suggesting that.  When the "Thin Blue Line" mentality makes almost all cops have a siege mentality and an unwillingness to condemn and either vocally or silently condone the actions of bad cops, it is incredibly troubling though and doesn't bode well for things to improve.

You are linking police brutality, of which blacks aren't, by far, the sole victims, but certainly the most mediatized, to "turning a blind eye to right wing extremism".
That is two different things.
Cops beating a prisoner, going heavy handed, that has happenned a lot.  In the US and in Quebec.  Again, here, nothing I have seen seems to indicate that blacks were the main recipient of that unjustified violence.
US Cops turning a blind eye to right wing extremism, as in, looking the other way while people of non white ethnicity are getting beaten or killed, that is not something I am aware of, in recent memory (say last decade or two).
I mean as a general unofficial policy, that they should do so.

Not testifying against your own comrades, that is something else.
You will see it among just about any organization with some esprit de corps: unions, armies, police force, etc.  The far left will even go so far as to refuse to press charges for rape because "it could be used by the ennemies of the cause".

[viper37]

Sure, but a troubling sign of your country's slide into right wing extremism is seemingly well read citizens like Yi denying it ever happens and forceful rhetoricians like Berkut verbally attacking anyone who suggests otherwise.

In other words, a Jewish person is unable to see clearly by himself about a far right problematic in his country and needs a white foreigner to tell him what to think...

If everyone agreed it was a problem that needed to be dealt with then you would be correct to suggest these are merely isolated incidents.  But surprisingly that is not the case.

Again, that is different than what I was talking about first.
Police brutality/lethality is a problem.  We all agree it is.  As Minsky said, there multiple police forces in the US, and they don't all receive the same training, after basic police academy.

What Berkut and Yi disagreed is that there was a generalized unofficial policy of US police forces (FBI, State Police, local police,etc) turning a blind eye toward right wing extremism, as in, letting nazis beat the crap out of a guy like Minsky or Garbon and walking their way without intervention (figuratively, of course, but generally speaking, not investigating such crimes).

[Sophie Scholl]

I don't recall saying anything about race, viper.  As far as I can tell you're the one who brought that into the discussion here.  There is a lot more to Fascist ideology than just racism and/or antisemitism.   and I suppose solely focusing on race helps make your point, but I don't see the point of building a strawman out of unrelated comments to then launch your attacks against.