About those peaceful antifa protests...

[Oexmelin]

So, for you, the Proud Boys are not racist?

[derspiess]

So, for you, the Proud Boys are not racist?

They consider themselves "Western Chauvinists", touting the superiority of Western culture, but they have disavowed racism.

[Oexmelin]

They consider themselves "Western Chauvinists", touting the superiority of Western culture, but they have disavowed racism.

I know what they say. I am asking if you consider them racist.

[derspiess]

No.  It took them longer than it should have to distance themselves from white nationalist groups, but I don't consider them racist.

[Oexmelin]

What would it take for you to consider something racist? Do you have examples of things you consider racist?

[derspiess]

I'm not going to try to convince you that they are not racist.  You probably consider me racist.

[The Larch]

I'm not going to try to convince you that they are not racist.  You probably consider me racist.

Well, you certainly are the useful idiot of racists.

[derspiess]

Thanks.

[Barrister]

They consider themselves "Western Chauvinists", touting the superiority of Western culture, but they have disavowed racism.

I know what they say. I am asking if you consider them racist.

As far as I understand it (and I don't spend a lot of time thinking about them) the Proud Boys allow and have non-white members.

There appears to be an argument that PB are misogynistic, certainly both anti-Muslim and anti-semitic, but racism doesn't seem to apply.

[Oexmelin]

I'm not going to try to convince you that they are not racist.  You probably consider me racist.

You shouldn't try to convince me of anything. But if you are willing to call out people for using the term "Nazis" improperly, or to exaggerate, or when you try to rescue all sorts of people from accusations of fascism, it would help to understand what it would take for you to consider someone a Nazi, a fascist, a racist. The people you try to cast as out-of-touch leftist wackos willing to punch anyone they disagreed with have at least offered pretty straightforward description of their political beliefs, while you have weaseled out more than once. What I object to, is the way you constantly imply leftist ideas are self-evidently beyond the pale, while equivocating on your own preferences which, truth be told, appear to be much more extreme-right than you seem willing to admit.

[derspiess]

They're anti-Islam for sure.  Not sure I've seen anything anti-semitic coming from them. 

[Oexmelin]

As far as I understand it (and I don't spend a lot of time thinking about them) the Proud Boys allow and have non-white members.

There appears to be an argument that PB are misogynistic, certainly both anti-Muslim and anti-semitic, but racism doesn't seem to apply.

Yes. And Nazis had ideologues and sympathizers within the groups they explicitly despised, even Jewish sympathizers and ideologues. That's the problem with the Proud Boys and other hipster racists: it's always humor, it's always ambiguous, we are always lacking the proper context, it's always on a comedy show, they're not really serious, and some of their best friends are black (or Indigenous, or Samoans).

Racism was never a fully coherent set of belief. The Proud Boys essentialize whiteness and wield it as a weapon for justifying discrimination and hatred. That they do not see it fit to develop fully their stance towards the skin color of others neither prevents, nor preclude them from arguing for white supremacy. 

[Razgovory]

How are the Proud Boys depicted in the Right-wing media?

[derspiess]

How are the Proud Boys depicted in the Right-wing media?

They're generally not, from what I can tell.

[The Minsky Moment]

As far as I understand it (and I don't spend a lot of time thinking about them) the Proud Boys allow and have non-white members.

There appears to be an argument that PB are misogynistic, certainly both anti-Muslim and anti-semitic, but racism doesn't seem to apply.

even the Nazis had "honorary Aryans"  Racism can manifest in different ways not just literally or figurative black or white.
"European chauvinism" has a racial component even if applied in a way that allows certain others to "convert"