About those peaceful antifa protests...

[derspiess]

https://reason.com/blog/2018/08/21/antifa-portland-evan-welch-violence

This Liberal Carried an American Flag to Protest Fascism in Portland. Antifa Cracked His Head Open With a Bat.
Masked Antifa agitators told Welch, a Hillary voter, to hand over the flag. He resisted. They attacked

Robby Soave Aug. 21, 2018 8:55 am

Evan Welch is not a fascist. He is a liberal who voted for Bernie Sanders in the 2016 Democratic primary, and for Hillary Clinton in the general election. On August 4, he attended a far-right rally in Portland, Oregon, as a counterdemonstrator intent on signaling his opposition to the "tacitly fascist event," he told The Oregonian.

Tell that to Antifa: One of the masked militants attacked Welch, striking him over and over again with some kind of metal rod concealed in black cloth. One blow landed on his head, which caused Welch to immediately crumple to the ground. He would eventually need four staples to close up the gaping wound.

How did Antifa misidentify Welch? He had brought an American flag with him in an attempt to take the symbol back from Patriot Prayer, the group holding the rally. According to The Oregonian:

"The right and certainly a lot of smaller groups like Patriot Prayer might rush to things like the flag and try to take it up as, 'This is our symbol exclusively,'" [Welch] said. "Part of my thinking was to take it back."

Aside from a few odd looks, Welch did not encounter any problems when he joined hundreds of other counter-protesters who gathered at City Hall late that morning.

In fact, Welch said, he saw several other people with American flags sprinkled among the group of progressives, union members and social justice activists.

But then, two members of Antifa confronted him and demanded he hand over the flag, which they characterized as a "fascist symbol." When Welch resisted, they attacked him. The concussion landed him in the hospital for two days.

It was, of course, wrong to attack Welch regardless of his political views. Even if Welch had been a Trump-worshipping alt-right troll, the masked man still had no right to try to take Welch's flag and club him over the head when he resisted. This was an ill-founded and immoral initiation of violence, full stop.

But it's also a good reminder of why Antifa's resistance strategy, punch Nazis in the streets, wherever and whenever they appear, is deeply misguided. Not everybody who attends a protest is a Nazi. Not everyone who waves an American flag is a fascist. Not every Republican is racist (Queer Eye's Jonathan Van Ness is right). A group that endorses political violence while claiming that everyone who isn't with them is against them, and that centrists are essentially fascist collaborators, is not a group that is making careful distinctions or thoughtfully considering its tactical approach. A broad endorsement of violence as a resistance tactic is certain to result in innocent people getting hurt, and to turn the moderate masses away from whatever it is Antifa supposedly represents. As a general matter, civil resistance works and violent protests backfire.

It's easy to abuse the whole "See, this is why Trump won!" thing. But beating the crap out of a liberal because he committed the sin of carrying an American flag does in fact seem like it belongs in the win-for-Trump column. If the left wants to defeat Trump, the worst thing it can do is make people fear Antifa more than they fear the administration.

Anyone here still like Antifa?  I mean, they're Anti-Fascists, after all.  How can you oppose a group that goes after Fascists?

[Valmy]

Vigilantes of any sort are bad news man, even the ones that start out with the best intentions. So many of those Mexican drug gangs were originally just packs of citizens trying to protect themselves from other gangs.

I am a little annoyed how citizens of the United States get labelled according to their political persuasion in that article, clearly an attempt to dehumanize the opposition. Also this: ' If the left wants to defeat Trump, the worst thing it can do is make people fear Antifa more than they fear the administration.' I am sorry do these people take orders from somebody such that 'the left' can control them in some way? Who is in charge of the 'the left' and how can they get in touch with the Antifa leader such that they might coordinate in response to this article?

[crazy canuck]

Anyone here still like Antifa?  I mean, they're Anti-Fascists, after all.  How can you oppose a group that goes after Fascists?

Anyone here think that one incident makes confronting fascists a bad idea?

[Valmy]

White supremacist mobs do not make anybody NOT want to vote for Trump but the actions of these Antifa people make people want to vote for him?

I don't get it. But then I tend to vote for people based on their own actions, not other people's actions unlike the people at 'reason'. A very reasonable position to be sure.

[crazy canuck]

White supremacist mobs do not make anybody NOT want to vote for Trump but the actions of these Antifa people make people want to vote for him?

I don't get it. But then I tend to vote for people based on their own actions, not other people's actions unlike the people at 'reason'. A very reasonable position to be sure.

Is that comment directed at my post?

[Valmy]

White supremacist mobs do not make anybody NOT want to vote for Trump but the actions of these Antifa people make people want to vote for him?

I don't get it. But then I tend to vote for people based on their own actions, not other people's actions unlike the people at 'reason'. A very reasonable position to be sure.

Is that comment directed at my post?

Nope. I mean it has nothing to do with your post.

[derspiess]

Anyone here still like Antifa?  I mean, they're Anti-Fascists, after all.  How can you oppose a group that goes after Fascists?

Anyone here think that one incident makes confronting fascists a bad idea?

So you're saying you still like Antifa?

[crazy canuck]

Ok, why do you think white supremacists "do not make anybody not want to vote for Trump"  Surely there are a lot of Republican voters who voted for him in the last election thinking he was a harmless idiot - but their harmless idiot - who have changed their minds.

[crazy canuck]

Anyone here still like Antifa?  I mean, they're Anti-Fascists, after all.  How can you oppose a group that goes after Fascists?

Anyone here think that one incident makes confronting fascists a bad idea?

So you're saying you still like Antifa?

I am saying that this incident draws attention to the fact that there are violent factions within every protest group but that fact does not undermine the need, especially now, to confront fascism.

[derspiess]

Anyone here still like Antifa?  I mean, they're Anti-Fascists, after all.  How can you oppose a group that goes after Fascists?

Anyone here think that one incident makes confronting fascists a bad idea?

So you're saying you still like Antifa?

I am saying that this incident draws attention to the fact that there are violent factions within every protest group but that fact does not undermine the need, especially now, to confront fascism.

Antifa are pretty much 100% violent.

[crazy canuck]

Anyone here still like Antifa?  I mean, they're Anti-Fascists, after all.  How can you oppose a group that goes after Fascists?

Anyone here think that one incident makes confronting fascists a bad idea?

So you're saying you still like Antifa?

I am saying that this incident draws attention to the fact that there are violent factions within every protest group but that fact does not undermine the need, especially now, to confront fascism.

Antifa are pretty much 100% violent.

Have you ever met Jacob?

[derspiess]

He's a member of Antifa?

[Josquius]

He's as much a member of antifa as anyone is, I don't think they give out membership cards.

[grumbler]

Generally, I don't see the difference between the Purple Drazi and the Green Drazi.  Seems to matter to them, though.

[Camerus]

Not every Republican is racist (Queer Eye's Jonathan Van Ness is right).