About those peaceful antifa protests...

[Jacob]

Viper, nice of you to edit out what you said about Raz

[dps]

I'll say to you basically what I said to Timmay--read some of the shit people have posted.  There are definitely some people who have posted in favor of vigilante violence.

In these sorts of discussions - especially since it's a contentious subject - it's IMO best to be precise in what you attribute to other people.

For my part, I have said that I think it is a positive to physically confront neo-Nazis in particular, and white supremacists groups who use the threat of violence in their behaviour (so the KKK, racist skinheads, et. al.). I do not think that there should be made any legal allowances for this, but I think it is moral behaviour nonetheless.

To the degree that you can characterize that as favouring vigilantism (and you can, fair enough), I do. But I do not subscribe to any of the many other wild accusations and slippery slope constructions - attacking people who "look like Nazis", using those kind of confrontational tactics against any other kind of political opponents etc.

I'm happy to discuss this in a constructive fashion, but I'll ignore the wild-eyed insanity of viper and the usual languish forum snide remarks and trolling (mostly, at least).

I wasn't talking about you, particularly.  I did PM Valmy and tell him who in particular I was referring to, but I didn't think it was productive to post that information in the thread itself.   I don't know, perhaps that was an error on my part.

[viper37]

For my part, I have said that I think it is a positive to physically confront neo-Nazis in particular, and white supremacists groups who use the threat of violence in their behaviour (so the KKK, racist skinheads, et. al.). I do not think that there should be made any legal allowances for this, but I think it is moral behaviour nonetheless.

To the degree that you can characterize that as favouring vigilantism (and you can, fair enough), I do. But I do not subscribe to any of the many other wild accusations and slippery slope constructions - attacking people who "look like Nazis", using those kind of confrontational tactics against any other kind of political opponents etc.

if that's not promoting violence, I don't know what it is.

If a group advocates violence, let the cop deal with it.  If they threaten you and your friends, that falls under legitimate defense.  But attacking people you disagree with is another thing.  As was seen in Quebec city, a lot of people who had nothing to do with the anti immigration group got hurt by your pals.  The end result is, La Meute is now more popular and they're gaining sympathy instead of legitimate scrutiny.

[Jacob]

I wasn't talking about you, particularly.  I did PM Valmy and tell him who in particular I was referring to, but I didn't think it was productive to post that information in the thread itself.   I don't know, perhaps that was an error on my part.

No worries

[Razgovory]

Viper, nice of you to edit out what you said about Raz

Damn I missed it.

I'm not sure where viper is going with this.  He has claimed that leftist protests are always violent, so where does he want us to go from there?  It seems that the only way to avoid violence is to stay at home or become right-wingers.

[Razgovory]

Raz, what's your take on the Antifa types?

They piss off the right people.

Dude don't do this troll shit.

'They piss off the right people' is what Derspeiss said to me about the Alt-Right.

[viper37]

He has claimed that leftist protests are always violent, so where does he want us to go from there? 

it seems obvious: take measures so that they aren't always violent.  Denounce violence, do not excuse it, minimize it.  When you organize something, tell people in advance you don't want violence and you will not tolerate it. 

Something like this:
- silent protest
- no weapons
- no body armour or shield of any kind
- no helmet
- no mask
- no sticks
- do not talk to the media
- if you go out of the ranks for any reason, you will not reintegrate
- no physical or verbal violence will be tolerated.

Fairly easy to do to organize a non violent protest when you want to.

[Ed Anger]

I always figured Quebec as this nice place with beautiful scenery, swank ski resorts, and a good restaurant scene.
Little did I realize its a horrific violent dystopia, with rampaging mobs of unchecked Communist hordes sacking cities, intimidating decent folk and assaulting stroller-bound infants in the street.

Don't forget the Maple Syrup thieves.

[Razgovory]

He has claimed that leftist protests are always violent, so where does he want us to go from there? 

it seems obvious: take measures so that they aren't always violent.  Denounce violence, do not excuse it, minimize it.  When you organize something, tell people in advance you don't want violence and you will not tolerate it. 

Something like this:
- silent protest
- no weapons
- no body armour or shield of any kind
- no helmet
- no mask
- no sticks
- do not talk to the media
- if you go out of the ranks for any reason, you will not reintegrate
- no physical or verbal violence will be tolerated.

Fairly easy to do to organize a non violent protest when you want to.

This doesn't make sense.  Even if we do all the things you suggest there will still be violence because "leftist protests are always violent".  Even if we protest quietly in our homes all by ourselves it will be violent simply because it was a leftist protest.

[derspiess]

Don't be silly you too, that has nothing to do.  We're talking violence here.  Attacking people in the streets.  Trying to murder suspected or actual neo nazis.  Deciding for yourself what kind of justice is the right one.

You mean, like knifing a guy who has the wrong haircut?  I'm guessing the Languish SJW crew were okay with that.  The attacker had the best of intentions-- punch a Nazi, stab a guy who maybe sorta vaguely looks like a Nazi, etc.

Just tell me how many times I have to say I am against violence before this ridiculous strawman bullshit ends. Fuck you man. I have always given you the benefit of the doubt and you are too much of a douchebag to even name names. Hiding behind that bullshit 'SJW crew' garbage.

I wasn't talking about you.

[viper37]

This doesn't make sense. 

If you',re trying to prove me right, it's certainly working

[derspiess]

You mean, like knifing a guy who has the wrong haircut?  I'm guessing the Languish SJW crew were okay with that.  The attacker had the best of intentions-- punch a Nazi, stab a guy who maybe sorta vaguely looks like a Nazi, etc.

Oh, you mean the guy who admitted making it up entirely? Seems a bit rich for blaming antifa or leftists for that.

In any case, no I am in fact not in favour of making up fake attacks by anyone. Of course, I don't expect the updated story will get much traction in your media-sphere.

Man Who Claimed He Was Stabbed After Being Mistaken For A Neo-Nazi Was Lying

A man who claimed that he was stabbed after being mistaken for a neo-Nazi now admits that he made the whole story up after accidentally stabbing himself.

Joshua Witt, 26, told police two weeks ago that he was getting out of his car in the parking lot of a Steak 'n Shake in Sheridan, Colorado, when a man came over to him and attacked him with a knife.

https://www.buzzfeed.com/nidhiprakash/this-man-says-he-was-mistaken-for-a-neo-nazi-and-stabbed?utm_term=.wrdQ46Kv2#.yv72E8ZW1

I did not know that. EXAMPLE WITHDRAWN

[Eddie Teach]

He has claimed that leftist protests are always violent, so where does he want us to go from there? 

it seems obvious: take measures so that they aren't always violent.  Denounce violence, do not excuse it, minimize it.  When you organize something, tell people in advance you don't want violence and you will not tolerate it. 

Something like this:
- silent protest
- no weapons
- no body armour or shield of any kind
- no helmet
- no mask
- no sticks
- do not talk to the media
- if you go out of the ranks for any reason, you will not reintegrate
- no physical or verbal violence will be tolerated.

Fairly easy to do to organize a non violent protest when you want to.

This doesn't make sense.  Even if we do all the things you suggest there will still be violence because "leftist protests are always violent".  Even if we protest quietly in our homes all by ourselves it will be violent simply because it was a leftist protest.

I don't think viper was saying they have to be violent but that all the ones he'd seen were.

[frunk]

I don't think viper was saying they have to be violent but that all the ones he'd seen were.

Or more correctly, all the ones he'd seen reported.  Peaceful protests rarely make the news unless they are notable for other reasons (such as size or composition).

Which, unfortunately, plays into the idea that the way to get attention is to be violent.

[Razgovory]

I don't think viper was saying they have to be violent but that all the ones he'd seen were.

It sounded like he was stating some sort of law.  If he wants to walk it back he's more than welcome to do so.