About those peaceful antifa protests...

[derspiess]

Everyone here agrees Stormfront and Nazis are terrible.  Duh.

Yet you seem far more obsessed with us constantly having to say we don't like vigilante violence. Because Languish is well known to go out in the streets and beat the shit out of people I guess.

Stop including yourself in that group.  I'm talking about the antifa apologists, not you. 

[viper37]

it is known leftist protests are all people holding hands and singing let's give peace a chance

I don't get this strawman. There have been violent leftist movements for centuries.

Jacob is trying to convince us that only the nazis are bad and everyone else is simply justified in the use of violence, so long as they attack suspected supporters of nazis, capitalism and other evils of modern society.

Even if the target of your hatred is someone protesting against illegal immigration while you want to welcome just about everyone in the country, including suspected criminals,  that is no reason to attack someone who is not violent and does not present any immediate threat.

I thought we had evolved beyond this way of doing politics, but the left wing are insistant in bringing us back to it.  Strange behavior for people who called themselves "progressists".

These guys are just bullies, as much as the neonazi morons.  All they do is provoke even more violence.

[Jacob]

Everyone here agrees Stormfront and Nazis are terrible.  Duh.

Hard to tell sometimes. Glad to see you speaking up.

[Jacob]

Stop including yourself in that group.  I'm talking about the antifa apologists, not you.

I'm worse than an apologist. I spent years doing anti-fascist activism.

[Barrister]

Stop including yourself in that group.  I'm talking about the antifa apologists, not you.

I'm worse than an apologist. I spent years doing anti-fascist activism.

You've certainly mentioned that before.

But I'm puzzled - you live in Vancouver.  Exactly how many "fascists" are there in the lower mainland (then or now) to be activist against?

[Eddie Teach]

Everyone here agrees Stormfront and Nazis are terrible.  Duh.

Yet you seem far more obsessed with us constantly having to say we don't like vigilante violence. Because Languish is well known to go out in the streets and beat the shit out of people I guess.

Stop including yourself in that group.  I'm talking about the antifa apologists, not you.

Valmy always thinks he's the one being attacked if you don't call somebody out by name.

[Razgovory]

Of course there'll be bad press. There's a big market for finger wagging at anti-fascist action.

In other news, racists with links to the Stormfront website are responsible for roughly 100 murders in the last five years: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/aug/29/stormfront-neo-nazi-hate-site-murder-internet-pulled-offline-web-com-civil-rights-action

Everyone here agrees Stormfront and Nazis are terrible.  Duh.

Apparently there are some very fine people there.

[Jacob]

You've certainly mentioned that before.

But I'm puzzled - you live in Vancouver.  Exactly how many "fascists" are there in the lower mainland (then or now) to be activist against?

There are more than enough, especially in the 90s. The Heritage Front, Northern Hammerskins, Church of the Creator et. al. were active all across Canada.

That said, I got involved in Ottawa: http://ottawacitizen.com/opinion/columnists/farber-echoing-charlottesville-ottawas-own-neo-nazi-riot

But Vancouver had plenty, as the 1998 murder of Nirmal Singh Gill by neo-Nazis illustrate. Finding online resources of Vancouver street culture in the 90s is not the easiest thing, but the stories of Daniel Gallant and Tony McAleer are reminders of that past.

To be honest, though, it was the kind of thing that if you were white and didn't want to know you could easily avoid being cognizant of it. If you were not white, if you were adjacent to circles where neo-Nazis operated, or you were interested in knowing you could run into them fairly easily.

That said, from my perspective the peak was probably in the early 90s, though still with a real presence until around 2000 or so. After that it got pretty quiet until recent times.

Now, of course, there's a bit of a resurgence with racist flyers being distributed every so often. Obviously flyers are not violence, but in my observation they're frequently an early indicator.

We also now have the "we're not racists we're just pro free speech and want to patrol the streets to make them safe from Muslim extremism" groups like Soldiers of Odin putting down roots as well. Totally not racist, of course, and any semblance of them dancing close to the lines are probably purely coincidental - just like the Heritage Front wasn't racist at all until it suddenly was:

On its website, Anti-Racism Canada posted images from social media accounts of several Soldiers of Odin Canada members, including its Saskatoon leader. The graphic includes the organization's logo and name above the words, "We must secure the existence of our people and the future of our children."

That's just one word different from "The Fourteen Words," a motto in U.S. white supremacist circles, according to the hate group watchdog Southern Poverty Law Centre: "We must secure the existence of our people and the future of White children."

So from my perspective there's enough to be concerned about if you're inclined to be concerned about Nazis. If you think - as I do - that a robust response against Nazis from the community is one of the ingredients in preventing them from taking root and growing in strength, now is pretty good time to act.

[Valmy]

Valmy always thinks he's the one being attacked if you don't call somebody out by name.

Not always, just here. There are not exactly many people on this message board.

[Valmy]

So from my perspective there's enough to be concerned about if you're inclined to be concerned about Nazis. If you think - as I do - that a robust response against Nazis from the community is one of the ingredients in preventing them from taking root and growing in strength, now is pretty good time to act.

What do you consider a 'robust' response?

[Barrister]

Jacob, my experience of the early 90s was different than yours.  That was when I was big in helping out the Reform Party, and as a new, right wing party there were frequent accusations we were somehow in league with groups like Heritage Front (which I think history has shown was complete nonsense).

My recollection of that time was that such groups were embarrassingly small and not really worthy of the attention being given to them.

[viper37]

Heritage front was infiltrated by CSIS, by the Toronto Sun blew up his cover before the work could be finished.
Nonetheless, the group was pretty much done by 1995 even if it officially disolved only in 2005.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heritage_Front

As for the links with the Conservative Alliance, some leaders of the HF bought a membership card of the party.  Once it was discovered, they were expelled.

I seem to remember they were hired by the Alliance as a security force for one of their rally, but I can't find anything credible on this, so it might have been a wild rumour.

[Jacob]

What do you consider a 'robust' response?

When Nazis and allies claim public space be physically present to tell them they are full of shit. Do not back down from physical intimidation. If it turns into a fight, win the fight.

Personally I'm not in favour of initiating violence.

[Jacob]

Jacob, my experience of the early 90s was different than yours.  That was when I was big in helping out the Reform Party, and as a new, right wing party there were frequent accusations we were somehow in league with groups like Heritage Front (which I think history has shown was complete nonsense).

Regarding the Reform Party and the Heritage Front I'd expect that as the RP started up there were indeed people affiliated with both groups - that's a pretty standard situation for the start of any party on the left or right, that extremists will try to get in on the ground floor - but I'd also expect that the RP minimized their influence and expelled them as they moved towards mainstream appeal and a merger with the Progressive Conservatives.

My recollection of that time was that such groups were embarrassingly small and not really worthy of the attention being given to them.

Unsurprising you have a different recollection than I do. Nonetheless, the links I posted reflect reality - there was in fact 100+ Nazi affiliated thugs rampaging through Ottawa after having listened to RaHoWa at the local Boys & Girls club, and Nirman Gill Singh was in fact murdered by Nazi thugs in a racist attack. Like I said, if you were white and not inclined to be look for it you could comfortably avoid the issue. But getting the shit kicked out of you by Nazis and their wannabes was indeed something that happened with some frequency if you looked queer, coloured, disreputably leftist, or otherwise an acceptable target in their eyes. I expect, however, that that group did not include young Reform Party loyalists. But if you belonged to such a group, or you felt that people belonging to such groups deserved having their concerns heard, then Nazis and fellow travelers were worth the attention given to them.

[garbon]

Whoa, whoa, whoa. Calling someone out for being white? Berkut will not stand for this!