Trains, Banks and Public/Private Ownership - Prev.Predict UK Gen.Election Result

[Richard Hakluyt]

Up to 150 feared dead in the Greenfell tower block disaster.

Some people are alleging the news is being managed, so the full death toll won't become know until weeks have passed. No sure if I believe that.

Sounds  to me.

What I cannot get over, though, is the use of cladding with flammable materials. The brutal 60's tower block was at least made of concrete, so fires were contained within each individual flat. In order to make the blocks look "pretty" it seems that we have compromised this basic safety feature. There are two tower blocks here in Preston that I see whenever I walk into town, they have also been tarted up with cladding, is it the dangerous stuff? It is certainly the case that many blocks in London have been clad with these materials; these need to be removed as soon as possible.

[Richard Hakluyt]

This article from the Spectator covers the problem quite well :

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2017/06/grenfell-tower-blaze-disaster-waiting-happen/

[mongers]

Up to 150 feared dead in the Greenfell tower block disaster.

Some people are alleging the news is being managed, so the full death toll won't become know until weeks have passed. No sure if I believe that.

Sounds  to me.

What I cannot get over, though, is the use of cladding with flammable materials. The brutal 60's tower block was at least made of concrete, so fires were contained within each individual flat. In order to make the blocks look "pretty" it seems that we have compromised this basic safety feature. There are two tower blocks here in Preston that I see whenever I walk into town, they have also been tarted up with cladding, is it the dangerous stuff? It is certainly the case that many blocks in London have been clad with these materials; these need to be removed as soon as possible.

Oh I hope it is all tinfoil stuff.

On the cladding, I think the beautification angle is a bit of a red herring, it may have played a part in this refurbishment, but I think The driving force is improved insulation and saving energy. 

Don't know anything about the Greenfell tower, but it's been said an addition four floors were made into flats, I'm guessing replacing the massive old boilers with a new heating system which combined with outside insulation meant it needed a much reduced output and could thus take up less space in the tower.

[Richard Hakluyt]

I lived in a block in London back in the 1980s. With only one side out of six exposed to the open air it was invariably too hot rather than cold. It did face south-east but even so; if they had installed insulative cladding on that building then I would probably have had to buy an aircon unit to chill my room 

[CountDeMoney]

Hey, at least we in America are rolling back a slew of federal safety regulations so we don't ever have to worry about stuff like this happening.  Because it creates jobs, not disasters.

[Grey Fox]

Regulations are bad for some reason.

[CountDeMoney]

They kill jobs.  Fires kill people, but they're not nearly as important.  Particularly if they're poors.  Or un-white.

[Grey Fox]

Regulations create jobs tho. You need people to enforce them, sift thru them, etc.

[jimmy olsen]

Up to 150 feared dead in the Greenfell tower block disaster.

Some people are alleging the news is being managed, so the full death toll won't become know until weeks have passed. No sure if I believe that.

150!

[DontSayBanana]

Isn't that a city toll thing?  I seem to recall the bridges costing an mortgage payment, but just one way.  Sort of a "roaches pay driving in, but they don't pay driving out" thing?

DRPA bridges are toll to leave NJ, free to enter. PANYNJ bridges are "fuck you both ways." NJ to Brooklyn and back during peak hours? $50.

[Tamas]

Up to 150 feared dead in the Greenfell tower block disaster.

Some people are alleging the news is being managed, so the full death toll won't become know until weeks have passed. No sure if I believe that.

150!

I was expecting even more hearing the stories.

And there is no conspiracy here I am sure. They say it will take weeks if not months to properly go through the building, and some of the dead may never be properly identified.

I remember reading one of the survivors telling her mother that they can't leave because the fire is coming up the stairwell.  I am pretty sure this would have been a major disaster either way due to the cladding and the idiotic "stay put" advice that was given to the residents, but I wonder if the floors had fire doors and if people bothered to actually keep them closed. In our building (just 2 floors luckily!) ours was regularly left open, I guess in a meaningless attempt to make the common area on the level less warm on warm days.
Nobody is leaving it open since this fire, though.

[Josquius]

Independent says it would have cost £5000 extra to buy fire resistant cladding.
If true..

Jesus. Someone really needs to go to jail for this one.

[Tamas]

Also: this is council housing, so this is the poorest strata. I don't think I have seen more than a couple of English last names among the survivors interviewed, or the missing/victims. Do you think it is a general picture for London that the "lower class" is almost exclusively of immigrants/their offspring, or it's just a coincidence of the neighbourhood?

[Richard Hakluyt]

It is early days but it looks like it is the building regulations that are at fault; ie insufficiently stringent. Apparently the cladding used is illegal in the USA for example. Sprinkler systems have been required for new blocks for a few years but there is no requirement to retrofit them in older buildings. I did feel for a fire safety expert who was on BBC news last night; he has known about these problems for years and has been banging on about them but receiving the cold shoulder from officials and politicians.

[Josquius]

A big concern I have about this is that it may do for high density housing what fukushima did for nuclear power. Right when things were looking to turn around and people were recognising it as the sensible way forward.
Won't help Londons housing problems....

Also: this is council housing, so this is the poorest strata. I don't think I have seen more than a couple of English last names among the survivors interviewed, or the missing/victims. Do you think it is a general picture for London that the "lower class" is almost exclusively of immigrants/their offspring, or it's just a coincidence of the neighbourhood?

Looking at the numbers 1/3 of London is foreign born and immigrants do tend to be disproportionately poorer.

Checking a map Kensington isn't too far from Wembley which I know is famous for being a heavy immigrant area.
Not so sure it'd be general for London as a whole... Don't the quite poor traditionally tend to the east and south of the river?