Political action and the Trump Presidency

[Valmy]

But you said yourself that the technological is political did you not? Our way of life is coming to an end sometime in the next century. I think that is certain one way or another.

Yes. And who carries that message? Who discusses the technological future in political terms? So far, it has been mostly billionaire tech gurus, and their political outlook is not the most appealing.

Well when you are the only person discussing something the discussion does tend to go in the direction you favor.

[Monoriu]

I am, and always shall be, an interested bystander in all political matters, foreign or domestic. 

[dps]

I am curious and worried.

I once described Languish as mildly hostile to political militancy (but certainly not political ideology). I may have been wrong. So, that's for my curiosity.

I think you are largely right about that, depending on how one defines militancy.  I would agree with what I think Valmy is saying--that a high level of militancy would destroy or at least damage democratic institutions.  Valmy, do you think that is a fair way to characterize your position?

[Razgovory]

I joined Indivisible.  It's like Languish, but I get a cookie in the end.

Tell me more about this cookie giving place.

It was some ladies living room.  Everyone was older than I was, and they griped about Trump.  I got a cookie.

[Valmy]

Valmy, do you think that is a fair way to characterize your position?

Yep. There is already a tendency for both sides to demonize each other as evil with nefarious intentions. Militancy only makes them more fearful of the other. I would rather fight with words and votes rather than action at this point.

[mongers]

I joined Indivisible.  It's like Languish, but I get a cookie in the end.

Tell me more about this cookie giving place.

It was some ladies living room.  Everyone was older than I was, and they griped about Trump.  I got a cookie.

That's a plus by my book, Raz.


You did well to have to deal with so many olds, we're a funny bunch. 

[Valmy]

I am jealous. Nobody has ever given me a cookie after griping about Trump.

Oh Raz I was proud to back you up on the St. Louis traitor monuments on Facebook. Missouri did not even secede yet somehow shooting other Missourians was done for 'State's Rights'.

[Jacob]

Well when you are the only person discussing something the discussion does tend to go in the direction you favor.

I don't think Silicon Valley VCs and their fans are the only ones discussing the technological future, but they're the ones whose point of view tend to dominate the public discourse.

Here's a different point of view re: self-driving cars: https://www.treehugger.com/cars/eric-reguly-how-self-driving-cars-will-kill-cities-not-save-them.html

[Valmy]

That makes no sense. The only reason people use bikes and walk around in urban centers is because they cannot drive?

Also sprawl happens because of unaffordable housing.

I also do not really understand the panic. Why would safer and cleaner transportation be a disaster for cities? They like road deaths and pollution?

Even in the centre of big cities like New York, Toronto, London and Paris, you often have to walk 200 or 300 metres to the nearest metro or bus stop. It's easier to have a car come to your doorstep. But that would clog secondary streets. It would also make you fatter—various studies have shown that public transportation promotes better health.

But drunk driving has zero impact on health? And sure it is super fast and easy for a car to navigate the streets of New York to come to your doorstep.

[garbon]

Well that site is called tree hugger...

[Oexmelin]

Yep. There is already a tendency for both sides to demonize each other as evil with nefarious intentions. Militancy only makes them more fearful of the other. I would rather fight with words and votes rather than action at this point.

Interesting. This is exactly opposite to my point of view. Or perhaps I have a different definition of militancy. To me, "fighting with words" has little effect when people already only frequent venues, or towns, or counties that are so politically homogeneous. Unless you organize a non-partisan townhall meeting, or an Enlightenment salon, or some other conversation with live poeple - but then, I count that as militancy. On the other hand, people sharing conservative memes on FB, or consuming hours of trash radio while stuck in traffic can make people fanatics, but not militants.

I think overemphasizing vote has led to an impoverishment of the notion of democracy: if one keeps voting, and nothing changes, or none of the things that have been promised, change, why bother? So has the hostility towards direct action: it tends to overvalue convenience to the detriment of the body politic. The meaning of citizenship has also atrophied: notice the prevalence of the vocabulary of "I am a taxpayer" to establish legitimacy of a political position.

One can certainly be a fanatic

[CountDeMoney]

Americans don't like "militancy."  Militancy smacks of European radicalism, and Americans don't do strikes, demonstrations, mobs, etc. It's simply not polite and fucks up traffic.

[citizen k]

Americans don't like "militancy."  Militancy smacks of European radicalism, and Americans don't do strikes, demonstrations, mobs, etc. It's simply not polite and fucks up traffic.

According to Oex, having a conversation is militancy.

[CountDeMoney]

According to Oex, having a conversation is militancy.

Yeah, he's adorable like that. 

[Oexmelin]

According to Oex, having a conversation is militancy.

If it's Thanksgiving dinner, it's not.

If it's something you have organized, opened to a public you did not know before hand, with the express purpose of discussing political matters, then yes. I think it warrants the label of "militant".