Dems impatient; want second stimulus

[DGuller]

We're in debt enough.

We're in recession even more than enough. 

[Valmy]

If I thought after the recession was over we would cut back and pay down the debts I would be in favor of this.

Since the right will just cut taxes and ramp up spending and the left will just ramp up spending when the good times return I am not enthusiastic.

[Berkut]

I am pretty much clueless at this point.

I hate the idea of this stimulus bullshit ebcause it is pretty obvious it has very little to do with stimulus, and is mostly just about the Dems going fucking nuts and spending insane amounts of money on any and every pet project they can think up.

On the other hand, I don't pretend to know what should be done about the recession, or how to get out of it. On the other other hand, I am pretty confident the people calling the shots don't know either.

[Valmy]

The poor Dems were ready to party down with absolute power only to discover the country is so fucked that they couldn't give as much money to their supporters as they liked.

So they have to call it 'stimulus'

Ok I am kidding...or am I? 

[Fate]

Not really. A bunch of white trash hicks running around with a few FOX News camera crews does not constitute significance.

Polls show that around half the country is concerned about the size of the deficit.

Great. Does this mean they'll start voting for politicians who run on a platform of cutting the military budget, medicare, medicaid, and social security budgets? For some reason, I think not. This 'concern' is relatively worthless if every significant item is off limits.

[Darth Wagtaros]

Nobody knows what will help.  At this point I wonder if massive government spending and bureacracy is so much a part of the economy that we can't cut it.

[KRonn]

I am pretty much clueless at this point.

I hate the idea of this stimulus bullshit ebcause it is pretty obvious it has very little to do with stimulus, and is mostly just about the Dems going fucking nuts and spending insane amounts of money on any and every pet project they can think up.

On the other hand, I don't pretend to know what should be done about the recession, or how to get out of it. On the other other hand, I am pretty confident the people calling the shots don't know either.

Agreed on this. And not too happy about another "stimulus", especially seeing how the last one was handled, or in fact a multi-year project of all kinds of spending, governmental programs, etc. As I said at the time, much of it wasn't about stimulating the economy and should have been done up separately, apart from the stim stuff.

[viper37]

On the other hand, I don't pretend to know what should be done about the recession, or how to get out of it. On the other other hand, I am pretty confident the people calling the shots don't know either.

it's really simple in fact: there is nothing you can do on the short term.

Quebec is getting out well so far because of massive government spending... way before there was any hint of a recession (thanks to a collapsing bridge).  So there's lots of work being done right now.
On the other hand, when the rest of Canada springs forward from the recession by the end of this year or early next year, we will stay behind and we will see our unemployement again rise to the 10-11%.

The stimulus won't hurt, but it won't help either.  As with any government, it takes time to get things done, so before that money is entirely spent, it takes about 12-18 months minimum from the time it's allocated in Congress (or House of Commons for us).

The problem of Canada is that borrowing money is quite expensive right now (my latest loan for the company is @7.1% wich is fucking insane considering the Bank of Canada rate is at 0,25%) and in the US, there's simply not enough money to be lended. 

On the one hand, you need to prevent your banks from cascade failing again so there is need for stronger regulations, for more reserve.  On the other hand, when there is an higher reserve for the banks, there is less money to loan, hence the economic growth is slower.

The worst of the crisis could have been averted, but once you're in there, doesn't really matter how many billions you poor in it, you're stuck there for a little while, untile the consumers&investors regain confidence.  The one who can predict when that happens will make a shitload of money.

[viper37]

Agreed on this. And not too happy about another "stimulus", especially seeing how the last one was handled, or in fact a multi-year project of all kinds of spending, governmental programs, etc. As I said at the time, much of it wasn't about stimulating the economy and should have been done up separately, apart from the stim stuff.

I like the US political system
But it has really one big flaw, wich happens to be it's greatest strenght: individuals have way too much power.
Having really no party-line like in a Bristish system, you need to convince every single congressman/woman to vote for your project and they know it.  So they ask... and ask... and ask... and you either get their vote for your important project or you do not.  Some are honest and vote for what they believe is best for the country/their voters some other will syphon evey bit of cash they can for economically worhtless projects.

[viper37]

Nobody knows what will help.  At this point I wonder if massive government spending and bureacracy is so much a part of the economy that we can't cut it.

Hard to do in time of recession.  You decrease your costs one way (less people to pay), but increase them the other way (unemployment insurance, less taxes perceived, etc, etc.).  In a period of economic boom, rationalizing the government is good, people laid off can easily find jobs elsewhere, plus, when the next recession actually hits, you're in a better shape with lower costs.

[Ed Anger]

Agreed on this. And not too happy about another "stimulus", especially seeing how the last one was handled, or in fact a multi-year project of all kinds of spending, governmental programs, etc. As I said at the time, much of it wasn't about stimulating the economy and should have been done up separately, apart from the stim stuff.

I like the US political system
But it has really one big flaw, wich happens to be it's greatest strenght: individuals have way too much power.
Having really no party-line like in a Bristish system, you need to convince every single congressman/woman to vote for your project and they know it.  So they ask... and ask... and ask... and you either get their vote for your important project or you do not.  Some are honest and vote for what they believe is best for the country/their voters some other will syphon evey bit of cash they can for economically worhtless projects.

Or buy them off like Mary Kaptur and a 3.5 billion for Ohio nad the Midwest in the Cap and Trade bill.

[MadImmortalMan]

Or buy them off like Mary Kaptur and a 3.5 billion for Ohio nad the Midwest in the Cap and Trade bill.

lol

Marcy Kaptur - D, AFL-CIO

[Ed Anger]

Or buy them off like Mary Kaptur and a 3.5 billion for Ohio nad the Midwest in the Cap and Trade bill.

lol

Marcy Kaptur - D, AFL-CIO

I'll forgive her this time, since she did her job and grabbed what she could.

[Caliga]

it's really simple in fact: there is nothing you can do on the short term.

This.

The root of the problem is that Congress and the President have very little ability to improve the economy (though they can certainly make it worse), but for some reason people think they can.  Because of this, Congressmen can't just do nothing... they have to pretend what the people think is correct if they want to be reelected.

[DGuller]

This.

The root of the problem is that Congress and the President have very little ability to improve the economy (though they can certainly make it worse), but for some reason people think they can.  Because of this, Congressmen can't just do nothing... they have to pretend what the people think is correct if they want to be reelected.

I think you're stating a very questionable opinion as a fact.  Bad recessions tend to spiral into depressions without any intervention, we've got a whole of Guilded Age to learn from.  At that point it's not just the "dead wood" that gets swept away.