Ted Cruz proposes method of getting rid of Ted Cruz

[CountDeMoney]

Missouri.  'Nuff said.

[garbon]

This is perhaps the best indication of how much things have changed within US political discourse.

Yeah. If that's the general view held by many or even most reasonable people then it's hard to see a path to actually improving things; at least as long as that persists.

Agreed.   

I guess this attitude has a lot to do with anti-government propaganda the right wing has embarked on ever since Reagan.  While corruption obviously is there, the effects of it on effective governance is what has been blown all out of proportion.  What really destroys effective governance is when the people who buy into this schpiel hook and sinker and elect suicide bombers into the government.

Said propaganda did a terrible job in the 90s then.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/1600/congress-public.aspx

[crazy canuck]

This is perhaps the best indication of how much things have changed within US political discourse.

Yeah. If that's the general view held by many or even most reasonable people then it's hard to see a path to actually improving things; at least as long as that persists.

Agreed.   

I guess this attitude has a lot to do with anti-government propaganda the right wing has embarked on ever since Reagan.  While corruption obviously is there, the effects of it on effective governance is what has been blown all out of proportion.  What really destroys effective governance is when the people who buy into this schpiel hook and sinker and elect suicide bombers into the government.

Said propaganda did a terrible job in the 90s then.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/1600/congress-public.aspx

Job approval rates does not really capture what we are talking about.  The comment by MiM was that everyone who enters politics is suspect.  You should find a graph that tracks where politicians rank in public esteem through time compared to other roles in society.  My sense of it is that the public opinion of politicians in general has been declining over the decades.

[Valmy]

This is perhaps the best indication of how much things have changed within US political discourse.

Not really. This is a pretty standard and old time view.

[Valmy]

Said propaganda did a terrible job in the 90s then.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/1600/congress-public.aspx

So bizarre. The 'party of no' Congress was the most unpopular in this chart yet somehow the voters just kept rewarding them.

[Valmy]

Job approval rates does not really capture what we are talking about.  The comment by MiM was that everyone who enters politics is suspect.  You should find a graph that tracks where politicians rank in public esteem through time compared to other roles in society.  My sense of it is that the public opinion of politicians in general has been declining over the decades.

I bet it ebbs and flows. Politicians are usually only held in high regard when we are in some kind of crisis and need them, sort of like Lawyers and Police Officers.

[LaCroix]

yeah, this argument -- growing distrust re politicians among americans -- seems like another instance of feelings being more important than facts

[grumbler]

This is perhaps the best indication of how much things have changed within US political discourse.

Yeah. If that's the general view held by many or even most reasonable people then it's hard to see a path to actually improving things; at least as long as that persists.

Agreed.   

I guess this attitude has a lot to do with anti-government propaganda the right wing has embarked on ever since Reagan.  While corruption obviously is there, the effects of it on effective governance is what has been blown all out of proportion.  What really destroys effective governance is when the people who buy into this schpiel hook and sinker and elect suicide bombers into the government.

I don't think that the right wing anti-government propaganda has been any more effective than the left-wing pro-government propaganda, but I think that, as information sources have become more pervasive and more is known about what the government is actually doing with tax dollars, people are getting more exposed to the inefficiencies and idiocies that come with bureaucracies unbridled by any external constraints.

I don't think government is actually becoming that much less efficient; i am sure that there were, in the past, military and naval procurement as incompetent and infuriating (had they been known) as, say, the F-35 or the Zumwalt class, but people just didn't hear about it.  Now, people hear about it, and they believe that the current government is uniquely venal and incompetent.  That's why they vote in the know-nothings who vow to just collapse government and throw the good out with the bad.

It has nothing to do with the various tribal propaganda programs.

[grumbler]

I bet it ebbs and flows. Politicians are usually only held in high regard when we are in some kind of crisis and need them, sort of like Lawyers and Police Officers.

Sure.  the graph shows that.  Post-9/11, people think Congress is doing a good job because it is seen as doing something.  that certainly wasn't a brilliant couple of congresses, but the times shaped the perception.

[CountDeMoney]

yeah, this argument -- growing distrust re politicians among americans -- seems like another instance of feelings being more important than facts

Poll after poll has consistently shown that, while voters have low opinions of Congress, they have relatively decent opinions about their own congressmen.
This whole "Congress sucks except for my representatives" attitude isn't helping matters. Political polarization FTL

[Valmy]

Poll after poll has consistently shown that, while voters have low opinions of Congress, they have relatively decent opinions about their own congressmen.
This whole "Congress sucks except for my representatives" attitude isn't helping matters. Political polarization FTL

I don't. Even if my city is so sliced up, every time I move to a new neighborhood I get a new shitty Congressman. It is hard to really feel any attachment to them.

[grumbler]

Poll after poll has consistently shown that, while voters have low opinions of Congress, they have relatively decent opinions about their own congressmen.
This whole "Congress sucks except for my representatives" attitude isn't helping matters. Political polarization FTL

This isn't new, though.

[CountDeMoney]

Poll after poll has consistently shown that, while voters have low opinions of Congress, they have relatively decent opinions about their own congressmen.
This whole "Congress sucks except for my representatives" attitude isn't helping matters. Political polarization FTL

This isn't new, though.

No, it is not new.  And neither is lacroix's premise about "growing distrust" about politicians.

[crazy canuck]

This is perhaps the best indication of how much things have changed within US political discourse.

Not really. This is a pretty standard and old time view.

Not sure if this is another one of your jokes.

[crazy canuck]

This is perhaps the best indication of how much things have changed within US political discourse.

Yeah. If that's the general view held by many or even most reasonable people then it's hard to see a path to actually improving things; at least as long as that persists.

Agreed.   

I guess this attitude has a lot to do with anti-government propaganda the right wing has embarked on ever since Reagan.  While corruption obviously is there, the effects of it on effective governance is what has been blown all out of proportion.  What really destroys effective governance is when the people who buy into this schpiel hook and sinker and elect suicide bombers into the government.

I don't think that the right wing anti-government propaganda has been any more effective than the left-wing pro-government propaganda, but I think that, as information sources have become more pervasive and more is known about what the government is actually doing with tax dollars, people are getting more exposed to the inefficiencies and idiocies that come with bureaucracies unbridled by any external constraints.

I don't think government is actually becoming that much less efficient; i am sure that there were, in the past, military and naval procurement as incompetent and infuriating (had they been known) as, say, the F-35 or the Zumwalt class, but people just didn't hear about it.  Now, people hear about it, and they believe that the current government is uniquely venal and incompetent.  That's why they vote in the know-nothings who vow to just collapse government and throw the good out with the bad.

It has nothing to do with the various tribal propaganda programs.

We used to have newspapers that people actually read containing real news about these sorts of things.  I am not sure why you think it is only in the age of fake news that people know about real government waste.