Who will win Superbowl LI?

[Valmy]

I forgive you grumbler. I understand that Brady is your guy.

At least he is not a puritanical bore.

[Berkut]

I forgive you grumbler. I understand that Brady is your guy.

At least he is not a puritanical bore.

It is one of his many positive attributes.

[Valmy]

I just do not understand how the Patriots could be a symbol for what is wrong with professional sports. The San Diego Chargers are that symbol.

The Pats play in a stadium 100% funded by the club owner. They are not without their faults but for fuck sake. What exactly is it that you consider wrong about professional sports? Because it does not seem to be the things most normal people think is wrong with professional sports.

[alfred russel]

What exactly is it that you consider wrong about professional sports?

Honestly? It is people like Tim.

[derspiess]

What exactly is it that you consider wrong about professional sports?

Honestly? It is people like Tim.

Pretty much, yeah.

[Berkut]

I just do not understand how the Patriots could be a symbol for what is wrong with professional sports. The San Diego Chargers are that symbol.

The Pats play in a stadium 100% funded by the club owner. They are not without their faults but for fuck sake. What exactly is it that you consider wrong about professional sports? Because it does not seem to be the things most normal people think is wrong with professional sports.

Win at all costs.

I am, to be fair, over-stating it a bit, because it is fun to have someone to hate.

Also, there is a bit of dis-illusionment as well. I liked that Pats, insofar as I liked any NFL team. They had Tedy Bruschi, who is probably my favorite all time Arizona player. They have Gronkowski, who is certainly the most successful Arizona player to play in the NFL.

And they had Tom, who is just the poster boy for what should be everything right about sports. Sixth round pick, super confident anyway, and he is outstanding for the reasons that *I* want to think QBs should be outstanding for - the mold of Joe Montana and Peyton Manning. Not the fastest, or strongest, or most athletically talented. But the smartest and hardest working. Brady beats you before the ball is ever snapped, because he know what your defense is trying to do better than an appreciable number of guys on the field across from him.

What is not to love about the guy?

The fact that that is not enough for him. Him and Bellichek both - it isn't enough to just be better legitimately, which they are - they are the best run organization in the NFL. I say that not just because their results, but because I know people who have dealt with them. They are a fucking machine. The contrast between how they run things and other organizations is night and day, from everything I've heard. Which is why I laugh at the idea that Brady and Bellicheck don't know exactly what is going on at all times in their organization.

But that isn't enough. They have to cheat, and they do so without an ounce of regret or shame.

I will admit to being a bit puritanical about that, maybe it's my nature. But there is cheating that everyone does, trying to get an edge on the margins, and then their is just straight out betraying the trust of others to get some imagined slight edge, and that I despise.

And then Bellicheck is just such an asshole about everything. Him and Trump are two peas in a pod - blame the media for everything, take no personal responsibility except for the winning. There are probably less scrupulous players and owners in the NFL, so it is fair to say that the Pats get a lot of grief because they win so damn much, and that certainly increases the spotlight. But I don't have to see those other ones, assuming they exist.

But this ridiculous idea that the Pats do nothing that nobody else does, there is just this giant NFL and Goodell driven conspiracy to make shit up about them is laughable.

But, in a nutshell, it is their attitude that winning is in fact everything. It's the same reason I despised the Ravens for not caring that their super stud linebacker almost certainly murdered someone, or at best covered up for someone else who murdered someone. Who cares? He tackles real good!

[Berkut]

TLDR: Because I am a puritanical bore.

[Grey Fox]

Everyone cheats, the Pats just got caught.

Great coaches are assholes in every sports.

[HVC]

Beyond the cheating thing, what I really dislike about them are their fans. They're like Leafs fans, but on a winning team, so it doubly irks me

[derspiess]

One of my favorite sports memories is back in 2013 when the Patriots played the Bengals here in Cincy.  It was 13-6 Bengals and the Patriots got the ball with two minutes left in the game.  Classic Brady comeback situation.  But it suddenly started raining cats & dogs.  Brady managed to put together a drive in spite of the weather, only to throw an INT to Pacman with a few seconds left. 

Gotta admire his ability, though.  I can't argue against him being Greatest Of All Time.

[grumbler]

Fuck the Steelers.

  Them's fightin' words!

[celedhring]

My first Superbowl was XLII 

I even worked it into a script which I managed to sell...

[DGuller]

I just do not understand how the Patriots could be a symbol for what is wrong with professional sports. The San Diego Chargers are that symbol.

The Pats play in a stadium 100% funded by the club owner. They are not without their faults but for fuck sake. What exactly is it that you consider wrong about professional sports? Because it does not seem to be the things most normal people think is wrong with professional sports.

Win at all costs.

I am, to be fair, over-stating it a bit, because it is fun to have someone to hate.

Also, there is a bit of dis-illusionment as well. I liked that Pats, insofar as I liked any NFL team. They had Tedy Bruschi, who is probably my favorite all time Arizona player. They have Gronkowski, who is certainly the most successful Arizona player to play in the NFL.

And they had Tom, who is just the poster boy for what should be everything right about sports. Sixth round pick, super confident anyway, and he is outstanding for the reasons that *I* want to think QBs should be outstanding for - the mold of Joe Montana and Peyton Manning. Not the fastest, or strongest, or most athletically talented. But the smartest and hardest working. Brady beats you before the ball is ever snapped, because he know what your defense is trying to do better than an appreciable number of guys on the field across from him.

What is not to love about the guy?

The fact that that is not enough for him. Him and Bellichek both - it isn't enough to just be better legitimately, which they are - they are the best run organization in the NFL. I say that not just because their results, but because I know people who have dealt with them. They are a fucking machine. The contrast between how they run things and other organizations is night and day, from everything I've heard. Which is why I laugh at the idea that Brady and Bellicheck don't know exactly what is going on at all times in their organization.

But that isn't enough. They have to cheat, and they do so without an ounce of regret or shame.

I will admit to being a bit puritanical about that, maybe it's my nature. But there is cheating that everyone does, trying to get an edge on the margins, and then their is just straight out betraying the trust of others to get some imagined slight edge, and that I despise.

And then Bellicheck is just such an asshole about everything. Him and Trump are two peas in a pod - blame the media for everything, take no personal responsibility except for the winning. There are probably less scrupulous players and owners in the NFL, so it is fair to say that the Pats get a lot of grief because they win so damn much, and that certainly increases the spotlight. But I don't have to see those other ones, assuming they exist.

But this ridiculous idea that the Pats do nothing that nobody else does, there is just this giant NFL and Goodell driven conspiracy to make shit up about them is laughable.

But, in a nutshell, it is their attitude that winning is in fact everything. It's the same reason I despised the Ravens for not caring that their super stud linebacker almost certainly murdered someone, or at best covered up for someone else who murdered someone. Who cares? He tackles real good!

Sounds a lot like Michael Schumacher in Formula 1.  He was probably the best race car driver ever on merit, but probably also the dirtiest one, on the track and off it.  He also seemed to never experience shame or remorse when he would occasionally be caught in some of his shenanigans.  I guess it's very hard to be a dominant winner in a highly competitive sport without having a deeply pathological personality.

[grumbler]

But that isn't enough. They have to cheat, and they do so without an ounce of regret or shame.

I will admit to being a bit puritanical about that, maybe it's my nature. But there is cheating that everyone does, trying to get an edge on the margins, and then their is just straight out betraying the trust of others to get some imagined slight edge, and that I despise.

I've always wondered how this lie got so ingrained that people from certain tribes here repeat it as though it were such an obvious truth that they make it their assumption, not their conclusion.

I guess that's just the post-truth world of "alternate facts" and that it just came to the NFL sooner than to presidential politics.

[Berkut]

Go Blue!