So, what did happen in 2016?

[Valmy]

As far as our current political crisis: both Brexit and Trump won with narrow margins. So now they have a chance to show how horrible their ideas are. Then maybe we come rushing back in.

Pity about the TPP though. Bad timing there.

[HVC]

I don't think internationalization of capital is leftist at all. I identify it as a right wing concept, but potentially I am willing to compromise and call it an economist technocrat concept in the service of big capital independent of other political concerns

I never realized allowing poor nations a chance to lift their people out of poverty was what technocratic big capital was all about. Good to know.

it also lets us by cheap stuff. helping others is tangential.

[HVC]

Pity about the TPP though. Bad timing there.

Both sides seem to dislike TPP. which means its probably a good policy that will never happen

[Valmy]

it also lets us by cheap stuff. helping others is tangential.

It isn't for me.

[Valmy]

Pity about the TPP though. Bad timing there.

Both sides seem to dislike TPP. which means its probably a good policy that will never happen

I know. But we came damn close.

[HVC]

it also lets us by cheap stuff. helping others is tangential.

It isn't for me.

You become a CEO while I wasn't looking? I agree with you that it's a good outcome, but the second costs increase they'll find another sweatshop nation. Sometimes it helps long term, like in Taiwan (I remember when I was a kid everything was made there) who went from making trinkets, clothes, and toys, to having a robust industry now. But that's neither the intermediate nor long term goal of multinationals and companies who outsource. To use Seedy's favourite phrase, its shareholder value.

[Valmy]

You become a CEO while I wasn't looking?

Altruistic Sweatshops Inc.

I agree with you that it's a good outcome, but the second costs increase they'll find another sweatshop nation. Sometimes it helps long term, like in Taiwan (I remember when I was a kid everything was made there) who went from making trinkets, clothes, and toys, to having a robust industry now. But that's neither the intermediate nor long term goal of multinationals and companies who outsource. To use Seedy's favourite phrase, its shareholder value.

The multinationals and companies are only the tools. But it works. Eventually the best sweatshops will dry up. Already kind of happening.

[MadImmortalMan]

I think if we're to be consistent about our principles as leftists, then we need to apply them universally. We can't just say because it's a bank or a corporation, we'll exclude them. If our ideas aren't good for everyone, then they aren't good.

[frunk]

As far as our current political crisis: both Brexit and Trump won with narrow margins. So now they have a chance to show how horrible their ideas are. Then maybe we come rushing back in.

We are dealing with an electorate where a significant fraction don't really care about facts or truth.  There's a decent chance that now they are in power they will say whatever they want to maintain it.  Expect any problems to be blamed on some combination of Liberal Elites, Illegal Immigrants, Muslims, Mexicans, Chinese, Blacks, Free Trade, Bureaucrats or whatever other group/bogeyman fits their narrative.

[Valmy]

As far as our current political crisis: both Brexit and Trump won with narrow margins. So now they have a chance to show how horrible their ideas are. Then maybe we come rushing back in.

We are dealing with an electorate where a significant fraction don't really care about facts or truth.  There's a decent chance that now they are in power they will say whatever they want to maintain it.  Expect any problems to be blamed on some combination of Liberal Elites, Illegal Immigrants, Muslims, Mexicans, Chinese, Blacks, Free Trade, Bureaucrats or whatever other group/bogeyman fits their narrative.

True. But we do not have to convince all of them. Just a small fraction of them. The ones whose support is shallow. They will jump ship once those people fuck it up.

I couldn't help but notice the Liberal Democrats picked up a seat in December in one of those weird British one seat election things. Kind of a small straw to grasp at but hey not nothing. Likewise I expect good things in 2018 in the midterms.

[CountDeMoney]

We are dealing with an electorate where a significant fraction don't really care about facts or truth.  There's a decent chance that now they are in power they will say whatever they want to maintain it.  Expect any problems to be blamed on some combination of Liberal Elites, Illegal Immigrants, Muslims, Mexicans, Chinese, Blacks, Free Trade, Bureaucrats or whatever other group/bogeyman fits their narrative.

True. But we do not have to convince all of them. Just a small fraction of them. The ones whose support is shallow. They will jump ship once those people fuck it up.

Not a chance, not with the entrenching that is coming. North Carolina isn't an aberration. It's a playbook. 

[Razgovory]

As far as our current political crisis: both Brexit and Trump won with narrow margins. So now they have a chance to show how horrible their ideas are. Then maybe we come rushing back in.

We are dealing with an electorate where a significant fraction don't really care about facts or truth.  There's a decent chance that now they are in power they will say whatever they want to maintain it.  Expect any problems to be blamed on some combination of Liberal Elites, Illegal Immigrants, Muslims, Mexicans, Chinese, Blacks, Free Trade, Bureaucrats or whatever other group/bogeyman fits their narrative.

True. But we do not have to convince all of them. Just a small fraction of them. The ones whose support is shallow. They will jump ship once those people fuck it up.

I couldn't help but notice the Liberal Democrats picked up a seat in December in one of those weird British one seat election things. Kind of a small straw to grasp at but hey not nothing. Likewise I expect good things in 2018 in the midterms.

How do you convince people who refuse the to share the same objective reality as you?

[CountDeMoney]

Not a chance, not with the entrenching that is coming. North Carolina isn't an aberration. It's a playbook.

Well, well. Imagine that.

Breaking News
Republicans in House Vote to Curtail Power of Ethics Office

By ERIC LIPTON
9:20 PM ET

    The vote came as a surprise and apparently without the support of the House speaker or the majority leader. The full House is scheduled to vote Tuesday.
    The move would take away power and independence from an investigative body, and give lawmakers more control over internal inquiries.

[Valmy]

How do you convince people who refuse the to share the same objective reality as you?

Look not every single person who voted for Trump or Brexit is some kind of radical alt right nutcase.

[CountDeMoney]

How do you convince people who refuse the to share the same objective reality as you?

Look not every single person who voted for Trump or Brexit is some kind of radical alt right nutcase.

Nutcases, no.  Ignorant, uninformed, uneducated?  Certainly.  But not nutcases.