What does a TRUMP presidency look like?

[Razgovory]

And again!

[The Minsky Moment]

I see Donald is not wasting any time with the witness tampering.

[jimmy olsen]

A Fulton County grand jury on Tuesday charged former President Donald Trump and 17 others with racketeering and other charges related to the Republican's attempt to reverse Georgia's 2020 election results.

https://www.ajc.com/politics/trump-18-others-indicted-for-trying-to-overthrow-2020-georgia-election/PQ3N2YBIDRDJFLJGFLEBZUWM6I/

[Jacob]

Heard something interesting on NPR.  Fulton County case is state law, which means if Donald is found guilty he cannot be pardoned by the president.  Presidents can only pardon those who break federal law. 

I guess he'll just have to hope the governor of Georgia is inclined to pardon him?

[jimmy olsen]

Heard something interesting on NPR.  Fulton County case is state law, which means if Donald is found guilty he cannot be pardoned by the president.  Presidents can only pardon those who break federal law. 

I guess he'll just have to hope the governor of Georgia is inclined to pardon him?

The governor can't pardon people in Georgia because one got caught selling pardons once. Anyways, Kemp fucking hates him. Wouldn't overturn thr election for him, beat Trumps primary challenger, had three senate elections go down because of him. He won't help him at all.

[Jacob]

The governor can't pardon people in Georgia because one got caught selling pardons once. Anyways, Kemp fucking hates him. Wouldn't overturn thr election for him, beat Trumps primary challenger, had three senate elections go down because of him. He won't help him at all.

... that sounds a bit inconvenient for Trump.

[Josquius]

The state constitutions, for one thing.  The death cult couldn't muster the popular votes to enact such a change to the constitution, and the state courts wouldn't allow a referendum like that anyway.

Yeah - I think in Trump's presidency, the deep state was underwhelming and the courts weren't that effective. But America's deep, decentralised democracy at state and local level was far more resilient, right down to the election itself.

That's why there's been an attempt to subvert it by getting full Trumpists into positions responsible for elections.

And bullying non trumpist people out of their low prestige low reward positions.

[crazy canuck]

I see Donald is not wasting any time with the witness tampering.

Under Georgia state law I wonder if that is a separate criminal charge or criminal contempt in the existing criminal proceedings.

[jimmy olsen]

Next up is Arizona
https://www.fox10phoenix.com/news/will-arizona-be-the-next-state-to-indict-former-president-donald-trump

PHOENIX - Arizona could be the next state to indict former president Donald Trump on charges in connection to trying to overturn the 2020 election results.

It's a move two Arizona governors anticipate will likely happen.

Video shows Arizona's fake electors, including former Arizona GOP chair, Kelli Ward, and state lawmakers Anthony Kern and Jake Hoffman, signing false electoral college documents declaring Trump the winner of the 2020 election.

Arizona's Attorney General is currently investigating, and Governor Katie Hobbs says she hopes to see Arizona's fake electors face criminal charges.

"Absolutely. I have been an advocate for holding folks involved in trying to overturn the will of the voters in the 2020 election accountable, and this is part of that," Hobbs said.

Arizona is mentioned several times in Georgia's indictment as Trump and his allies reportedly contacted lawmakers to get them to overturn election results in his favor.

Fake electors in Georgia and Michigan are now facing several felony counts, including making false statements, conspiracy, and corruption charges.

"Accountability is critical. I don't think we're going to change directions until there's accountability at the top level," Hobbs said. "I think it should move forward and play out in the legal process."

Hobbs' Republican predecessors also weighed in.

"I do. I do believe our attorney general is going to move forward on some kind of disciplinary action," Former Arizona Gov. Jan Brewer said.

Former Arizona Gov. Doug Ducey said, "I am concerned about continuing indictments. I think we're on number four. I'm concerned about how this is going to affect the electorate, the respect for the rule of law, and equal justice."

The attorney general's office has confirmed that an investigation into Trump, his allies and Arizona's fake electors is underway, but gave no indication on when charges would be announced.

In a statement, a spokesperson for Arizona Attorney General Kris Mayes said, "The attorney general's office cannot comment on an ongoing investigation. We do not have any updates to share or comments to make on the Georgia case at this time."

[Gups]

Given the apparent stanglehold Trump has on the Republican party, how did Kemp get the nomination last time?

[Barrister]

Given the apparent stanglehold Trump has on the Republican party, how did Kemp get the nomination last time?

Trump has a lot of influence but his power is not complete.  Kemp did indeed face a Trump-backed primary candidate in 2022, but Kemp won massively, 73% to 22%.

If I understand it right, being an incumbent helped, as did it being a statewide race.

[OttoVonBismarck]

There is also a strong suburban tinge to the GOP coalition in Georgia, among which Kemp would have dominated. Trump is very weak among suburban moderates and so too has the GOP itself been every election with him at the helm, other than the one he won--2016.

[The Minsky Moment]

The federal Jan 6 case makes a sharp distinction between alternate electors memorializing a vote as a contingency if litigation succeeds, and alternate electors submitting bogus returns after litigation failed.  The clear implication of the federal indictment is that the former is permissible under federal law, but the latter may not be assuming proof of the requisite criminal intent.

The Georgia indictment does not make such a clear distinction. That may be because Georgia law is more strict on these matters than federal law, and it may be because the Georgia case is using some of this conduct as overt acts in support of the conspiracy (which do not need to be criminal themselves) as opposed to predicate offenses (which do need to be).  But once the GA case gets moving, I'd expect to see a flurry of motions for to dismiss pieces of the indictment or seeking severance.

[Barrister]

The federal Jan 6 case makes a sharp distinction between alternate electors memorializing a vote as a contingency if litigation succeeds, and alternate electors submitting bogus returns after litigation failed.  The clear implication of the federal indictment is that the former is permissible under federal law, but the latter may not be assuming proof of the requisite criminal intent.

The Georgia indictment does not make such a clear distinction. That may be because Georgia law is more strict on these matters than federal law, and it may be because the Georgia case is using some of this conduct as overt acts in support of the conspiracy (which do not need to be criminal themselves) as opposed to predicate offenses (which do need to be).  But once the GA case gets moving, I'd expect to see a flurry of motions for to dismiss pieces of the indictment or seeking severance.

As I understand it it would up being a kind of a continuum.  Lots of these alternate electors were recruited on a sales pitch of "hey if we're successful in court we need someone to be an alternate elector".  It then kind of devolved into "Hey Mike Pence - you should certify these alternate electors".

I don't believe any of those who merely put their names forward to be alternate electors have been charged in Georgia.

I want to be very careful commenting on ongoing prosecutions, as I'm only going by media reports.  My only comment is that in our experience in Canada trying to run a trial with something like 19 co-accuseds tends to crash and burn from just the sheer size and weight of matters.

[crazy canuck]

BB, that is the first thought I had.  Conducting civil litigation with that many defendants is a nightmare. In a criminal prosecution, yikes.