What does a TRUMP presidency look like?

[Sheilbh]

I assume this isn't normal for the President's lawyers

[Barrister]

You have to assume that he was the one taping the conversation, so I'm sure he wouldn't be brainstorming ways that votes would be found.  I don't think we should belittle the acts of doing the right thing, but frankly I'll wait to be impressed until people do the right thing while knowing that doing the wrong thing may succeed.

His side admitted to taping the call.

But it's not just the call.  Frankly the call was the least of it, as it was miles too late (the vote had already been certified and the EC had already voted).  Georgia SoC had been under pressure from day 1 to refuse to certify the Georgia vote, and instead he upheld the vote as being valid and fair from the beginning.

[crazy canuck]

I assume this isn't normal for the President's lawyers

Wow

[Barrister]

You mean this Hawley?

Silver lining- that is a former chairman of RNC condemning him.

Yes but Michael Steele (who if you couldn't tell from the pic is black) has been functionally #NeverTrump for awhile and endorsed Joe Biden.

[DGuller]

You have to assume that he was the one taping the conversation, so I'm sure he wouldn't be brainstorming ways that votes would be found.  I don't think we should belittle the acts of doing the right thing, but frankly I'll wait to be impressed until people do the right thing while knowing that doing the wrong thing may succeed.

I assume it was someone else present on the call and he did not know it was being taped. 

Are you suggesting his integrity was all for show?

Not necessarily, but I'm just suggesting that it wasn't a difficult moral choice on his part.  You can only evaluate someone's morality when there is a realistic path to doing the wrong thing. 

Someone is proving their honesty when they're all alone with a million dollars, and with no way for someone to trace whether they pocketed some of it.  Someone isn't really proving their honesty when they choose not to try to take some money from a fully guarded bank.

[crazy canuck]

You have to assume that he was the one taping the conversation, so I'm sure he wouldn't be brainstorming ways that votes would be found.  I don't think we should belittle the acts of doing the right thing, but frankly I'll wait to be impressed until people do the right thing while knowing that doing the wrong thing may succeed.

I assume it was someone else present on the call and he did not know it was being taped. 

Are you suggesting his integrity was all for show?

Not necessarily, but I'm just suggesting that it wasn't a difficult moral choice on his part.  You can only evaluate someone's morality when there is a realistic path to doing the wrong thing. 

Someone is proving their honesty when they're all alone with a million dollars, and with no way for someone to trace whether they pocketed some of it.  Someone isn't really proving their honesty when they choose not to try to take some money from a fully guarded bank.

Well with Republicans all around him, including a Senator from his State, taking the opposition position, I don't agree with your assertion that standing up to the president wasn't the only choice he had.  He could easily have waffled like so many elected Republicans did even yesterday.  Instead he clearly told Trump that Trump was wrong.  That took courage.

[The Minsky Moment]

I assume this isn't normal for the President's lawyers

That is an understatement.

The convention is that a withdrawing lawyer usually does it in the least "noisy" way as possible.  The withdrawing lawyer has to be careful because until the withdrawal, the lawyer is still a fiduciary for the client and owes the client the duty of zealous advocacy.  So even if you think a client wants to do something scummy, it's likely the withdrawal notice will say some anodyne equivalent to irreconcilable differences.  It's got to be really bad to send a notice like this.

Seeing this raising more questions in my mind about the circumstances of the US atty resignations in Georgia.

EDIT: I would add that a letter like this automatically activates the potential for the crime-fraud exception to attorney-client privilege.

[FunkMonk]

I'm imagining the White House right now with real Downfall-style rantings and ravings and staff inside literally too afraid to even look at the President because he is so unstable right now.

I honestly think that right now that Mike Pence is effectively, de facto Acting President.

[alfred russel]

You have to assume that he was the one taping the conversation, so I'm sure he wouldn't be brainstorming ways that votes would be found.  I don't think we should belittle the acts of doing the right thing, but frankly I'll wait to be impressed until people do the right thing while knowing that doing the wrong thing may succeed.

His side admitted to taping the call.

But it's not just the call.  Frankly the call was the least of it, as it was miles too late (the vote had already been certified and the EC had already voted).  Georgia SoC had been under pressure from day 1 to refuse to certify the Georgia vote, and instead he upheld the vote as being valid and fair from the beginning.

We will probably disagree on this, but he had a legal requirement to certify the vote, and he also oversaw the elections. I'm not sure how he can be responsible for elections, say they were full of fraud, still takes no action, and then refuse an obligation to certify.

CC: the other senators from his state are bystanders in a position to pander to the Trump base. He wasn't in a position to pander.

Trump's asks were just impossible. The governor is as Trumpy as they came, and now Trump is calling for him to be jailed.

[Malthus]

I assume this isn't normal for the President's lawyers

Holy crap!

This ... isn't normal at all. Here in Ontario at least, motions for withdrawal for mandatory reasons (that is, the client is intending to use your services for criminal activities and not merely refusing to pay you) are, needless to say, uncommon. I've never seen one in the wild.

I would assume that in such a case you would be suppose to maintain client confidentiality and have the materials under a sealing order, but then, I've never seen one done.

Edit: needless to say, the relevant rules will vary by jurisdiction. My instincts are all that a situation in which this can be published is really wrong ... not that I care about a wrong done to Trump, but still.

[Jacob]

Also you can't say that you think there's a real risk the election was stolen and then see people behave in a way that would be justifiable if the election actually was stolen, and not have responsibility for that.

Politics can't operate purely in a space of irony or the raised eyebrow. I say this election was stolen - but you know that I don't really mean it and I know you know that I don't really mean it. Motivation doesn't change what you say or do, and it is reasonable for people to respond to what you say or do rather than your motivation.

IMO, irony and sarcasm are not viable defences especially when it's over an extended period of time. You don't get to pull out a gun in a bank and demand money and then claim it was just misunderstood sarcasm when you get done for attempted robbery.

[alfred russel]

I wonder how many lawyers, administration officials, and associated hangers on will be trying to create separation from Trump on the way out the door, now that the patronage gravy train is ending.

[Admiral Yi]

Mike Mulvaney has resigned.

[Barrister]

I assume this isn't normal for the President's lawyers

That is an understatement.

The convention is that a withdrawing lawyer usually does it in the least "noisy" way as possible.  The withdrawing lawyer has to be careful because until the withdrawal, the lawyer is still a fiduciary for the client and owes the client the duty of zealous advocacy.  So even if you think a client wants to do something scummy, it's likely the withdrawal notice will say some anodyne equivalent to irreconcilable differences.  It's got to be really bad to send a notice like this.

Seeing this raising more questions in my mind about the circumstances of the US atty resignations in Georgia.

EDIT: I would add that a letter like this automatically activates the potential for the crime-fraud exception to attorney-client privilege.

umm... yeah.

My first thought is "doesn't this violate solicitor-client privilege"?

And there isn't a judge in the world (in particular after what has gone down) that wouldn't remove counsel based on "breakdown in the solicitor-client relationship".

[Barrister]

Mike Mulvaney has resigned.

as special envoy for Northern Ireland.