What does a TRUMP presidency look like?

[Valmy]

Does it really matter if the setting is professional or private?

Matter to whom?

We seem to be focusing on the workplace. I think the rule is applied in general, no?

Well the idea is that this kind of thinking hurts women in their jobs and thus has a sexist impact on their ability to advance in their careers. I don't know what kind of negative impact it would have in private life.

[merithyn]

I have had nothing but female bosses since 2004 and I meet with them alone all the time to talk business. Not even the most obnoxious busybody has ever even raised an eyebrow about it. I find it very hard to believe that this kind of thing is actually an issue.

Oh believe it. 

[merithyn]

Does it really matter if the setting is professional or private?

Yes.

[crazy canuck]

I have had nothing but female bosses since 2004 and I meet with them alone all the time to talk business. Not even the most obnoxious busybody has ever even raised an eyebrow about it. I find it very hard to believe that this kind of thing is actually an issue.

Oh believe it. 

I think Valmy meant he finds it hard to believe the Pence rule can be justified in the way DGuller suggested.

[DGuller]

The issue is not the perception of the busibodies, the issue is the perception that if a complaint is made against a man for sexual harassment, he's in trouble regardless of the complaint's merit, because it's not always in HR's interest to act with presumption of innocence, and you can't control what people think of you once an accusation is made against you.  There were a number of articles back in the day describing the effect in had on males limiting their exposure to such risk, like these: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/27/world/europe/metoo-backlash-gender-equality-davos-men.html, or https://www.marketwatch.com/story/men-are-afraid-to-mentor-female-colleagues-in-the-metoo-era-heres-what-not-to-do-2019-05-20. 

I would never consciously engage on what is described in the articles, as I do consider it an unacceptable discrimination.  Sometime in life you just have to do the right think and have faith that it won't come back to bite you.  However, I understand how some men can't help but think about such things, if it is indeed the case that accusation is enough to derail one's career.  Lack of due process is an evil that always begets a lot of other evils.

[Syt]

I can't decide which is the worse take. "I can't be alone with a woman because I/her/me might succumb to carnal urges" or "I can't be alone with a woman because they're all potential manipulators who could use false accusations of sexual assault to destroy me." 

[The Minsky Moment]

My rule is never to be alone with another man or group of men.  It is well known that men have reputations for more risky behavior and making errors of judgment and so I insist on having at least one woman present to help maintain control and a sanity check.  Also men can be aggressive backstabbers and so I always want a woman present as an independent witness.

[Valmy]

I have had nothing but female bosses since 2004 and I meet with them alone all the time to talk business. Not even the most obnoxious busybody has ever even raised an eyebrow about it. I find it very hard to believe that this kind of thing is actually an issue.

Oh believe it. 

I think Valmy meant he finds it hard to believe the Pence rule can be justified in the way DGuller suggested.

Yep.

[Syt]

[merithyn]

The issue is not the perception of the busibodies, the issue is the perception that if a complaint is made against a man for sexual harassment, he's in trouble regardless of the complaint's merit, because it's not always in HR's interest to act with presumption of innocence, and you can't control what people think of you once an accusation is made against you.  There were a number of articles back in the day describing the effect in had on males limiting their exposure to such risk, like these: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/27/world/europe/metoo-backlash-gender-equality-davos-men.html, or https://www.marketwatch.com/story/men-are-afraid-to-mentor-female-colleagues-in-the-metoo-era-heres-what-not-to-do-2019-05-20. 

I would never consciously engage on what is described in the articles, as I do consider it an unacceptable discrimination.  Sometime in life you just have to do the right think and have faith that it won't come back to bite you.  However, I understand how some men can't help but think about such things, if it is indeed the case that accusation is enough to derail one's career.  Lack of due process is an evil that always begets a lot of other evils.

Studies have shown that only 2% of sexual harassment claims are false, and only around 35% of workplace sexual assaults are reported to the authorities.

I'm pretty sure men are still more dangerous to women than the other way around.

But whatever keeps women in their places, am I right?

[Eddie Teach]

Is alone time with your boss something to be desired? 

[DGuller]

Is alone time with your boss something to be desired? 

In a functional workplace, absolutely, for multiple reasons.  It helps you perform better, it helps you get recognition, it helps you get better projects, it can also lead to mentorship.

[Iormlund]

It's great when a boss is available, but being forced to spend a significant amount of time with one is really bad IMHO.

In my experience the longer a boss is with you the most likely he/she is a micromanaging asshole.

[DGuller]

It's great when a boss is available, but being forced to spend a significant amount of time with one is really bad IMHO.

In my experience the longer a boss is with you the most likely he/she is a micromanaging asshole.

Yeah, I don't disagree, I was just comparing having 1-1 access to your boss versus not having it.  Either having too much or none is bad, but I'd say none is worse.  All throughout my career I found lack of managerial contact to be the biggest demotivator.

[Syt]

Spot the famous people!