What does a TRUMP presidency look like?

[Valmy]

Well I am religious and I consider religion extremely dangerous whenever it is mixed with politics. It drives me nuts that these religious right wingers are so big on opposing Sharia law but at the same time seem eager to create a political system where it could come to power if it just had enough supporters.

[Habbaku]

Mm, I don't know. I'mma pray on this.

[dps]

Let's be completely fair here: Bill Clinton was still liked by most that were inclined to like him, long after anyone with an ounce of brain had to know that he abused his power to sexually abuse women.  It is natural in polarizing times to stick with the bastards on your side, and be in denial about it if that helps.  I find it less explicable that people would vote for Moore to begin with, but once you're that fucked up, nothing else really matters.

Oh did he abuse somebody? I thought he was just a sleezy philandering type. How would I know that anyway? Weird that Starr left that part out. Was he trying to both bring down AND protect the President? That makes no sense.

Dude, it wasn't just sex with an intern;  there were rape allegations against Bill Clinton, and it wasn't just Paula Jones, either.  FWIW, I find at least some of the allegations credible, but, base on my admittedly limited knowledge of the details, not rising to the "beyond a reasonable doubt" level it's supposed to take for a jury to convict.

OTOH, I'm unaware of any allegations of Bill Clinton ever going after under-age girls. 

DGuller is right in that any sexual relations between a person in a position of power and someone that works for them or that they otherwise have authority over is going to be problematic, because it can easily muddy the water as to whether any consent given was actually genuine.  In a court of law, that might not be enough to convict anyone, but it certainly might be enough to ruin someone's reputation, especially if there's a pattern of affairs with employees. 

None of this excuses Moore. 

[Valmy]

Dude, it wasn't just sex with an intern;  there were rape allegations against Bill Clinton, and it wasn't just Paula Jones, either.  FWIW, I find at least some of the allegations credible, but, base on my admittedly limited knowledge of the details, not rising to the "beyond a reasonable doubt" level it's supposed to take for a jury to convict.

There were? And this was never brought up in the impeachment why? Dude I am not defending the guy. I was talking about the idea that anybody with an ounce of brains knew Bill was out there raping and it was only our partisan glasses that blinded us. Hell at the time we did not even know about the whole scandal until after we had voted for him a second time and I only got the impression he was slimy not a criminal. So why did the Republicans try to defend him? Why did they make it about perjury and not rape?

OTOH, I'm unaware of any allegations of Bill Clinton ever going after under-age girls. 

DGuller is right in that any sexual relations between a person in a position of power and someone that works for them or that they otherwise have authority over is going to be problematic, because it can easily muddy the water as to whether any consent given was actually genuine.  In a court of law, that might not be enough to convict anyone, but it certainly might be enough to ruin someone's reputation, especially if there's a pattern of affairs with employees. 

None of this excuses Moore.

Sure that can be a problem. Last I checked his reputation was ruined but, again, all this came out after the last time we would ever get to vote for him instead of a few weeks before a major election. I am not sure I would go so far that everybody with two brain cells to rub together 20 years ago knew Bill was a rapist.

[dps]

Dude, it wasn't just sex with an intern;  there were rape allegations against Bill Clinton, and it wasn't just Paula Jones, either.  FWIW, I find at least some of the allegations credible, but, base on my admittedly limited knowledge of the details, not rising to the "beyond a reasonable doubt" level it's supposed to take for a jury to convict.

There were? And this was never brought up in the impeachment why? Dude I am not defending the guy. I was talking about the idea that anybody with an ounce of brains knew Bill was out there raping and it was only our partisan glasses that blinded us. Hell at the time we did not even know about the whole scandal until after we had voted for him a second time and I only got the impression he was slimy not a criminal. So why did the Republicans try to defend him? Why did they make it about perjury and not rape?

OTOH, I'm unaware of any allegations of Bill Clinton ever going after under-age girls. 

DGuller is right in that any sexual relations between a person in a position of power and someone that works for them or that they otherwise have authority over is going to be problematic, because it can easily muddy the water as to whether any consent given was actually genuine.  In a court of law, that might not be enough to convict anyone, but it certainly might be enough to ruin someone's reputation, especially if there's a pattern of affairs with employees. 

None of this excuses Moore.

Sure that can be a problem. Last I checked his reputation was ruined but, again, all this came out after the last time we would ever get to vote for him instead of a few weeks before a major election. I am not sure I would go so far that everybody with two brain cells to rub together 20 years ago knew Bill was a rapist.

IIRC the rape allegations didn't surface until after the impeachment proceedings had begun.  Also, while I think the allegations were credible, as I said, I don't think that they were provable.  And I don't think that anyone didn't believe that he was guilty of the perjury;  while some people didn't think perjury was serious enough to be an impeachable offence, he was acquitted along party lines, not because anyone seriously thought that he hadn't perjured himself.

And yeah, I mentioned in another thread recently that while we knew that he had cheated on Hillary even before he was first elected, we didn't know until much later that it wasn't just a one-time thing.

[DGuller]

Okay, how about we group the concept and call it sexual naughtiness?  It's easy to get lost with terms like "rape", "sexual abuse", "sexual assault", "sexual harassment", "statutory rape", etc, to the point that you can't figure out the hierarchy of badness.  You're committing sexual naughtiness if you engage in a sexual act that may leave the other person feeling violated and a bit out of sorts afterward.  It may or may not rise to the level of an actual crime, but it always a shitty thing to do to the other person.

[Valmy]

Okay, how about we group the concept and call it sexual naughtiness?  It's easy to get lost with terms like "rape", "sexual abuse", "sexual assault", "sexual harassment", "statutory rape", etc, to the point that you can't figure out the hierarchy of badness.  You're committing sexual naughtiness if you engage in a sexual act that may leave the other person feeling violated and a bit out of sorts afterward.  It may or may not rise to the level of an actual crime, but it always a shitty thing to do to the other person.

I think most people came out of the Clinton scandal convinced he was a scumbag personally regardless of what good work he may or may not have done for the country. I don't think he would have won a third term.

But clearly we are developing new sex mores. Probably good. Hopefully we will be less hypocritical about them this time.

[Valmy]

IIRC the rape allegations didn't surface until after the impeachment proceedings had begun.  Also, while I think the allegations were credible, as I said, I don't think that they were provable.  And I don't think that anyone didn't believe that he was guilty of the perjury;  while some people didn't think perjury was serious enough to be an impeachable offence, he was acquitted along party lines, not because anyone seriously thought that he hadn't perjured himself.

Well right and it was more of a case of whether you thought something that was something worth impeaching over.

And yeah, I mentioned in another thread recently that while we knew that he had cheated on Hillary even before he was first elected, we didn't know until much later that it wasn't just a one-time thing.

Exactly. So not really comparable to the Moore situation. Alabama is going to vote on this dude in about a month.

[Eddie Teach]

Not only did Moore beat the candidate Trump endorsed, he's now hijacked his thread. UNACCEPTABLE. 

[Admiral Yi]

Okay, how about we group the concept and call it sexual naughtiness?  It's easy to get lost with terms like "rape", "sexual abuse", "sexual assault", "sexual harassment", "statutory rape", etc, to the point that you can't figure out the hierarchy of badness.  You're committing sexual naughtiness if you engage in a sexual act that may leave the other person feeling violated and a bit out of sorts afterward.  It may or may not rise to the level of an actual crime, but it always a shitty thing to do to the other person.

This doesn't describe IMO what Bill did to/with Monica Lewinsky.

[DGuller]

Okay, how about we group the concept and call it sexual naughtiness?  It's easy to get lost with terms like "rape", "sexual abuse", "sexual assault", "sexual harassment", "statutory rape", etc, to the point that you can't figure out the hierarchy of badness.  You're committing sexual naughtiness if you engage in a sexual act that may leave the other person feeling violated and a bit out of sorts afterward.  It may or may not rise to the level of an actual crime, but it always a shitty thing to do to the other person.

This doesn't describe IMO what Bill did to/with Monica Lewinsky.

What about Paula Jones?

[Admiral Yi]

What about Paula Jones?

Debatable IMO.  There is the opposing theory that she was persuaded to cash in.

[DGuller]

What about Paula Jones?

Debatable IMO.  There is the opposing theory that she was persuaded to cash in.

Juanita Broaddrick?

[Admiral Yi]

Juanita Broaddrick?

No opinion.

[Razgovory]

What about Paula Jones?

Debatable IMO.  There is the opposing theory that she was persuaded to cash in.

Juanita Broaddrick?

Gave a deposition denying the allegations.