What does a TRUMP presidency look like?

[Razgovory]

Interesting look into the mind of Trump supporters.  https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2017/01/25/we-asked-people-which-inauguration-crowd-was-bigger-heres-what-they-said/?tid=sm_fb&utm_term=.a2a11c3c7e1c

Didn't post the article because it relies on pictures and graphs.  Basically, would people give a false answer to an obvious question (which photo has more people in it), to demonstrate their loyalty to Trump.  Yes.

[frunk]

We do have to start ignoring them however, and being radical ourselves about absolutely stomping on the tendency to shut down the conversation by moderates who have convinced themselves that their credibility is somehow linked to being intolerant of dissenting viewpoints.

I think this sentence got away from you somewhere.

[Berkut]

Many of them do.

[Razgovory]

We do have to start ignoring them however, and being radical ourselves about absolutely stomping on the tendency to shut down the conversation by moderates who have convinced themselves that their credibility is somehow linked to being intolerant of dissenting viewpoints.

I think this sentence got away from you somewhere.

I think this has to do with Islamaphobia.

[garbon]

How does that work? So we all have one election where people can show up without ID and then get an ID? What happens if they lose that - can they get another? Who is keeping track whether or not someone has already been given an ID?

Pretty much. You get 'Grandfathered' in. Free and clear ID for you.

Um if they lose it? What happens when you lose your Drivers License? I guess the same thing?

What is presently around to keep people from registering twice? Or having two passports? Or two driver's license?

The new voters have to get theirs when they register.

Well you have to pay for other IDs when you lose them. I thought whole notion was to prevent disenfranchisement by requiring payment.  I'm not sure I like the notion making it more complicated for the volunteers who man polling stations nor the extra expenditure.

I don't know if it is different in Texas, but neither state I ever voted in required me to bring the bit of voter registration mailer with my details on it. I've always just gone in, said my name and was off to the races.

[Admiral Yi]

Is Iowa City such a hotbed for radical leftism that you feel the need to point out your credentials? 

Pretty much.  College town.  The whole state went Trump by six points.  I figure IC went Hillary around 70/30.

[DontSayBanana]

If you had mandatory ID cards you would not have all this shit.

I am all for personal freedom, but if there are basic functions of your state linked to being able to identify who is an eligible citizen and who isn't, maybe it would make sense to have a mandatory system? With an ID card you would have one that would fit all similar purposes.

Does any nation with a population as large as ours have mandatory IDs? This is a legitimate question.

Yes, but the difference is that many of those actively provide their citizens with ID (as opposed to putting both the effort and the cost of obtaining the ID on the would-be voter).  It's one of those little wrinkles where a little "freedom" (from "tracking" in the form of mandatory government ID) gets in the way of a big one (the ability to participate in an election).

[merithyn]

If you had mandatory ID cards you would not have all this shit.

I am all for personal freedom, but if there are basic functions of your state linked to being able to identify who is an eligible citizen and who isn't, maybe it would make sense to have a mandatory system? With an ID card you would have one that would fit all similar purposes.

Does any nation with a population as large as ours have mandatory IDs? This is a legitimate question.

Yes, but the difference is that many of those actively provide their citizens with ID (as opposed to putting both the effort and the cost of obtaining the ID on the would-be voter).  It's one of those little wrinkles where a little "freedom" (from "tracking" in the form of mandatory government ID) gets in the way of a big one (the ability to participate in an election).

Which countries?

[Valmy]

Well we really only have one peer population wise and that is Indonesia. And even then we have 60 million more people.

India and China are on a different level.

Not really sure how any of them manage their IDs. I would be surprised if China did not have mandatory IDs but they also do not have things like voting.

[merithyn]

The reason I ask is because the size of our population is going to be a factor when determining how best to do something like this. And if these are to be given out for free... (otherwise, they can't be the only possible way to be allowed to vote)... that's quite a cost.

[Tamas]

It is always funny for me how mandatory personal ID's are such a mystical things for the anglo-saxon world. They are such a natural part of life in Hungary. When you are 14 you get issued one, then you have to renew a few times during your life.

I am all for civil liberties but I don't get it how this gets in the way. To me, it looks like it is actually EASIER to deny civil liberties to you, if your eligibility for them can be put in question due to lack of clear identification.

[Valmy]

If it were already done like that then nobody would have a problem. As it is because of how things have gone in the past many people cannot get one.

Which is why I recommend grandfathering in any ID scheme. Over time the old people will die off and then we can be assured of no voter fraud if it is so important to everybody.

[The Brain]

According to Tampax Hungary can do no wrong.

[DontSayBanana]

Well we really only have one peer population wise and that is Indonesia. And even then we have 60 million more people.

India and China are on a different level.

Not really sure how any of them manage their IDs. I would be surprised if China did not have mandatory IDs but they also do not have things like voting.

Yeah, since we're a solid "tier two" in terms of population with only Indonesia being comparable, I was adding in a "tier three" of countries that are at least in the same order of magnitude, which is still fairly small- Brazil, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Russia, Nigeria, Japan, and Mexico being the remaining countries with 100 million+ people.

[derspiess]

Is Iowa City such a hotbed for radical leftism that you feel the need to point out your credentials? 

Pretty much.  College town.  The whole state went Trump by six points.  I figure IC went Hillary around 70/30.

Hmm, so that explains why you voted Hillary.  Blending in with the lefties in Iowa City!