What does a TRUMP presidency look like?

[Admiral Yi]

The target is 2% of GDP and of that 2%, 20% must be for equipment expenditures.

23 NATO countries meet both targets. France UK, Germany are there.  These are the countries that are likely to participate in a bombing operation somewhere.  Canada, Belgium and Italy are the real offenders here.

Some recent members need some leeway before they reach their target, but they are working on it.

Some other countries have face hard economic times in a not so distant past, and contrary to the US, they can not go into huge deficits year after year for the fun of it.  The European union has strict rules, and only emergencies will authorize countries to go into deficit.  Covid was one such emergency. 

You will please to know that they are now discussing another emergency situation for their defense budget since Russia is preparing for war next year, now that the USA has betrayed all of us, and leaked its own nuclear secrets online.

I am glad you did not vote Trump.  I would be happier if you stopped using his silly rhetoric.

I will concede most members are not free riding now if you will concede that almost all were  free riding until very recently and that several member leaders made multiple false statements about their commitments.

Free riding is not silly Trumpian rhetoric.  It's an academic term used in scholarly publications.

[Tonitrus]

Why is the US Army tagging musk? It's like you idiots decided to do a fascist oligarchy speedrun or something.

The abandonment of the name Liberty is icing on the irony cake

Fort Liberty was an easy target because of its notoriety and generic name, and lets them claim a "win" and call it settled.  Most of the other bases were more sensibly named after other American war heroes; Eisenhower, Cavazos, Moore (this one was praised by Mel Gibson...thus extra protection ), and I would be more surprised if those were reverted.

[Razgovory]

I was just repeating what sophie told me.  She wanted me in a camp.

She did not you fucking liar. She said she would be in a camp and when you are shipped to it, she would greet you.

Seedy told me to go kill myself about 400 times and you melt down from that weak sauce?

I took that as she wanted me in a camp.  I'm not upset, I'm just disappointed.

[grumbler]

I can't believe they changed the name back to Fort Bragg, if Bragg was a US General his name would live in infamy forever as a disgrace to the service. But when you are a Confederate General incompetence is celebrated. Though I guess he did help the US win.

Oh, no.  The icing on the cake is that they expect us to believe that they did this to honor a previously-unknown WW2 soldier who just happened to be named Bragg. This is grade-school stuff.

[The Brain]

That a Russian conventional attack on Western Europe would be feeble enough to be resisted by European forces alone didn't become apparent until 2022.

OK fair enough.  In 2022 nobody expects the Russians to come streaming through the Fulda Gap.

But the concern in 2025, or at least after the Russians have some time to rebuild, is not a full drive to the centre of Europe - but a lightning strike on the Baltics.

There I'm not as sure it could be resisted before Tallinin or maybe Riga fall - and then what does Europe do - a concentrated effort to drive the Russians out - in particular without US support if it comes to that?

My view is that if the US withdrew conventional forces from Europe but maintained its nuclear umbrella over Europe, then the US would still be the primary guarantor of security in Europe. And that if the US withdraws its nuclear umbrella, then conventional forces will not make it the primary guarantor of security in Europe.

Of course, it could be argued that in a practical sense the umbrella was withdrawn already during Trump 1. My guess is that European governments largely ignored this instead of looking at creating actual security for Europe.

[grumbler]

I was just repeating what sophie told me.  She wanted me in a camp.

Do you really think that repeating this lie will convince us to believe it?

[HisMajestyBOB]

I was just repeating what sophie told me.  She wanted me in a camp.

Do you really think that repeating this lie will convince us to believe it?

That approach did work on almost 50% of voters. 

[viper37]

The target is 2% of GDP and of that 2%, 20% must be for equipment expenditures.

23 NATO countries meet both targets. France UK, Germany are there.  These are the countries that are likely to participate in a bombing operation somewhere.  Canada, Belgium and Italy are the real offenders here.

Some recent members need some leeway before they reach their target, but they are working on it.

Some other countries have face hard economic times in a not so distant past, and contrary to the US, they can not go into huge deficits year after year for the fun of it.  The European union has strict rules, and only emergencies will authorize countries to go into deficit.  Covid was one such emergency. 

You will please to know that they are now discussing another emergency situation for their defense budget since Russia is preparing for war next year, now that the USA has betrayed all of us, and leaked its own nuclear secrets online.

I am glad you did not vote Trump.  I would be happier if you stopped using his silly rhetoric.

I will concede most members are not free riding now if you will concede that almost all were  free riding until very recently and that several member leaders made multiple false statements about their commitments.

Free riding is not silly Trumpian rhetoric.  It's an academic term used in scholarly publications.

Shit happens in life.

You plan for something, other things happen, it requires more time than you expect.

[garbon]

The target is 2% of GDP and of that 2%, 20% must be for equipment expenditures.

23 NATO countries meet both targets. France UK, Germany are there.  These are the countries that are likely to participate in a bombing operation somewhere.  Canada, Belgium and Italy are the real offenders here.

Some recent members need some leeway before they reach their target, but they are working on it.

Some other countries have face hard economic times in a not so distant past, and contrary to the US, they can not go into huge deficits year after year for the fun of it.  The European union has strict rules, and only emergencies will authorize countries to go into deficit.  Covid was one such emergency. 

You will please to know that they are now discussing another emergency situation for their defense budget since Russia is preparing for war next year, now that the USA has betrayed all of us, and leaked its own nuclear secrets online.

I am glad you did not vote Trump.  I would be happier if you stopped using his silly rhetoric.

I will concede most members are not free riding now if you will concede that almost all were  free riding until very recently and that several member leaders made multiple false statements about their commitments.

Free riding is not silly Trumpian rhetoric.  It's an academic term used in scholarly publications.

Shit happens in life.

You plan for something, other things happen, it requires more time than you expect.

Okay and people can fairly call you out, no?

[viper37]

The target is 2% of GDP and of that 2%, 20% must be for equipment expenditures.

23 NATO countries meet both targets. France UK, Germany are there.  These are the countries that are likely to participate in a bombing operation somewhere.  Canada, Belgium and Italy are the real offenders here.

Some recent members need some leeway before they reach their target, but they are working on it.

Some other countries have face hard economic times in a not so distant past, and contrary to the US, they can not go into huge deficits year after year for the fun of it.  The European union has strict rules, and only emergencies will authorize countries to go into deficit.  Covid was one such emergency. 

You will please to know that they are now discussing another emergency situation for their defense budget since Russia is preparing for war next year, now that the USA has betrayed all of us, and leaked its own nuclear secrets online.

I am glad you did not vote Trump.  I would be happier if you stopped using his silly rhetoric.

I will concede most members are not free riding now if you will concede that almost all were  free riding until very recently and that several member leaders made multiple false statements about their commitments.

Free riding is not silly Trumpian rhetoric.  It's an academic term used in scholarly publications.

Shit happens in life.

You plan for something, other things happen, it requires more time than you expect.

Okay and people can fairly call you out, no?

Canada has no excuses.

The European situation has been well explained by Dist and Minsky.

When America gets called on its lack of commitments toward its obligations, I couldn't help but notice a certain... jingoism in the past, from certain members.  Some involved in this discussion.

But like I said, defense requires money.  If America slaps tariffs and doesn't pull its weight elsewhere forcing other countries to do triple the work, it has consequences elsewhere.

[The Brain]

As a matter of urgency Sweden has to stop sharing military information with the US. Not only is the US commander-in-chief a supporter of Russia, many in the US military vote Republican and have to be assumed to leak everything they know to Daddy Putin.

[HVC]

I guess it's a good thing the USSR never thought of bribing GOP politicians directly, rather than just planting spies and agents.

[The Brain]

If the Nato treaty had included a requirement for military assistance to a fellow member under attack, then Sweden would have to leave Nato ASAP. But luckily that's not the case.

[Grey Fox]

If the Nato treaty had included a requirement for military assistance to a fellow member under attack, then Sweden would have to leave Nato ASAP. But luckily that's not the case.

Why?

[The Brain]

If the Nato treaty had included a requirement for military assistance to a fellow member under attack, then Sweden would have to leave Nato ASAP. But luckily that's not the case.

Why?

We don't want to be in a position where we have to defend Trump and his shitshow of a country.