What does a TRUMP presidency look like?

[dps]

Nope, Nazi apologetics are not going to fly here for the next little while. -- Jacob

That's bullshit, Jake. Condemning far right and far left extremism is Nazi apologetics?

Yup drawing false moral equivalences saying "those anti-fascists are just as bad" days after a Nazi murder is apologetics, yes.

One side demands the subjugation and extermination of groups of people (Jews, LGBTetc, Muslims, Black people). The other does not.

There are some people on the left that want Muslims dead, or at least deported--there are a few such on this forum.

[DGuller]

One can certainly draw a moral equivalence between Fascists and Communists.

Maybe that would be relevant in 1944 Poland.  What does this have to do with anything here?

[Jacob]

There are some people on the left that want Muslims dead, or at least deported--there are a few such on this forum.

Well you should tell spicy to include that argument in his next post about how the left is just as bad as the Nazis.

[Jacob]

One can certainly draw a moral equivalence between Fascists and Communists.

And you are free to do so if you think that is relevant to the recent Nazi murder, the huge number of upcoming white supremacist/ Nazi marches, and the current administration - or indeed for any other reason you'd like.

However, if you start low effort reposting of images from Breitbart or the Daily Mouthbreather or wherever Spicy sources his shitposts, those will get deleted outside the designated thread.

[Admiral Yi]

Maybe that would be relevant in 1944 Poland.  What does this have to do with anything here?

About as much as extermination of Jews does.

[Jacob]

Maybe that would be relevant in 1944 Poland.  What does this have to do with anything here?

About as much as extermination of Jews does.

The march in Charlottesville used images such as this as part of the organization effort:


What's the equivalent line of rhetoric being used that makes Communist murders relevant to the current situation?

[DontSayBanana]

How should one feel about the naming, shaming, and harassment on Twitter of those at the Nazi rally?  One the one hand, those people are without a doubt probably scum.  On the other hand, social media righteous mobs are an evil in their own right, and they haven't exactly figured out the system for doling out punishments fitting the crime, and with fair and adequate appellate process.

I'm right there with you. We made doxxing a crime for a reason. While the employers and friends might see these people and cut off ties, the "consequences" could just as easily be (actually, more likely, IMO) some whackjob vigilante wannabe tossing around death threats or actual assaults. My personal take is that doxxing is just outsourcing terroristic threats.

[Jacob]

I'm right there with you. We made doxxing a crime for a reason. While the employers and friends might see these people and cut off ties, the "consequences" could just as easily be (actually, more likely, IMO) some whackjob vigilante wannabe tossing around death threats or actual assaults. My personal take is that doxxing is just outsourcing terroristic threats.

Doxxing is a crime? I did not know that.

[Barrister]

You know, I spent the day at the Ukrainian Cultural Heritage Village east of Edmonton.  It's a historical re-enactment of early settlement of Ukrainians in Alberta.  It has a whole bunch of old buildings re-located from various spots, with several historical re-enactors scattered throughout.  I liked that the re-enactors scattered Ukrainian throughout their speeches (and on the very basic level that I could understand).

It was cool to show the boys, and to talk to them a little bit about their own Ukrainian heritage.

Anyways... I'm proud of my background and heritage.  You know what - in theory I could get behind both "European (white) heritage" and "men's rights" groups.  One should be proud of their background, and in a few instances I think there are some legitimate political concerns to be addressed (more so on the Men's Rights side).

But it's a shame.  Each and every "White heritage" and "Men's Rights" group I have ever seen is so absolutely transparent that "white heritage" merely stands for "white supremacy", and "Men's rights" stands for "misogyny".  Such terms as European heritage" and "men's rights" is so absolutely polluted by hate groups.

[Jacob]

You know, I spent the day at the Ukrainian Cultural Heritage Village east of Edmonton.  It's a historical re-enactment of early settlement of Ukrainians in Alberta.  It has a whole bunch of old buildings re-located from various spots, with several historical re-enactors scattered throughout.  I liked that the re-enactors scattered Ukrainian throughout their speeches (and on the very basic level that I could understand).

It was cool to show the boys, and to talk to them a little bit about their own Ukrainian heritage.

Anyways... I'm proud of my background and heritage.  You know what - in theory I could get behind both "European (white) heritage" and "men's rights" groups.  One should be proud of their background, and in a few instances I think there are some legitimate political concerns to be addressed (more so on the Men's Rights side).

But it's a shame.  Each and every "White heritage" and "Men's Rights" group I have ever seen is so absolutely transparent that "white heritage" merely stands for "white supremacy", and "Men's rights" stands for "misogyny".  Such terms as European heritage" and "men's rights" is so absolutely polluted by hate groups.

Yeah it's pretty sucky. I'm really fond of Viking stuff f. ex. and that's one of the favourite sources of symbols for the undifferentiated white supremacist crowd.

[Admiral Yi]

The march in Charlottesville used images such as this as part of the organization effort:


What's the equivalent line of rhetoric being used that makes Communist murders relevant to the current situation?

I don't understand the question.  The words "end Jewish influence in America" makes extermination of Jews et al relevant to the current situation?

[Jacob]

I don't understand the question.  The words "end Jewish influence in America" makes extermination of Jews et al relevant to the current situation?

Yes it does.

The Nazis murdered a large number of Jews in the 30s and 40s. This was preceded by a long period of time where they talked about "ending Jewish influence in Germany" and elsewhere.

Presently - the current situation - there are people who proclaim themselves the inheritors of the Nazis of the 30s and 40s. They call themselves Nazis and literally and proudly display the very same symbols the Nazis operated under when they murdered millions of Jews. They also speak of "ending the Jewish influence in America".

Those two things seem fairly related to one another to me. I'm not sure what makes them seem unrelated to you? It seems pretty clear that the modern day Nazis are following the pattern and wish to enact the beliefs of the predecessors they are copying.

[derspiess]

False equivalence?  Absolutely.  False equivalence and "I'm just trolling here, lolz" are the two most common tools employed to normalize the Nazis.  I don't think you should be Twitter-mobbed for it, but you should be shown an appropriate lack of respect for this shit.

Indeed.

And if spicy's going to roll with the just-trolling-lolz-but-Nazi's-aren't-the-worst-am-i-rite shit then he'll have to put on his big boy pants and write some actual posts rather than repost images.

I'll do it when I have time. But I do regard the far left (note I said far left and not just 'left') being as bad as the far right. It's terrible that this Nazi scumbag killed that girl-- violence on the part of the far right is certainly cause for concern, but it's not as if far left types haven't also been violent.

I know that "punch a Nazi meme" made you giggle so much a while ago, but maybe it did help build the level of political violence that we're now seeing, as some here predicted.

[Admiral Yi]

Yes it does.

The Nazis murdered a large number of Jews in the 30s and 40s. This was preceded by a long period of time where they talked about "ending Jewish influence in Germany" and elsewhere.

Presently - the current situation - there are people who proclaim themselves the inheritors of the Nazis of the 30s and 40s. They call themselves Nazis and literally and proudly display the very same symbols the Nazis operated under when they murdered millions of Jews. They also speak of "ending the Jewish influence in America".

Those two things seem fairly related to one another to me. I'm not sure what makes them seem unrelated to you? It seems pretty clear that the modern day Nazis are following the pattern and wish to enact the beliefs of the predecessors they are copying.

Fair enough.  I was responding previously to DGuller, who intimated that the historical experience of Communism (and by extension of Fascism) were irrelevant to the current situation.  If you say the historical experience is relevant, then I agree.  And on that basis I draw the moral equivalence.

[Jacob]

Fair enough.  I was responding previously to DGuller, who intimated that the historical experience of Communism (and by extension of Fascism) were irrelevant to the current situation.  If you say the historical experience is relevant, then I agree.  And on that basis I draw the moral equivalence.

Well the thing is, unlike with the current crop of Nazis, I do not see the willing inheritors of the legacy of Communist mass murder on the American political scene.

So I agree with DGuller that Communist mass murders are irrelevant while Nazi ones are highly relevant in today's America.