Canadian professor under fire for refusing to use genderless pronouns

[Solmyr]

800 may be an exagerration, but there are 5 or 6 different ones out there: one, ne, ve, ey, ze, xe, or just using "they".

Plus having personalized pronouns kind of defeats the purpose of having a pronoun in the first place.  Why not just call ze by zirs own name?

Yes, why not? See, addressing people isn't a big problem after all. As I said, about the only time you'll need to remember someone's third-person pronoun is when you talk about them to someone else. And in such a case you probably know them well enough to remember their pronoun. Their name or "you" works just fine when talking to them directly.

[grumbler]

http://www.breitbart.com/tech/2016/09/29/student-chooses-his-majesty-after-university-offers-choice-of-personal-pronouns/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social

The Michigan Difference (TM)

[Zoupa]

800 may be an exagerration, but there are 5 or 6 different ones out there: one, ne, ve, ey, ze, xe, or just using "they".

Plus having personalized pronouns kind of defeats the purpose of having a pronoun in the first place.  Why not just call ze by zirs own name?

Yes, why not? See, addressing people isn't a big problem after all. As I said, about the only time you'll need to remember someone's third-person pronoun is when you talk about them to someone else. And in such a case you probably know them well enough to remember their pronoun. Their name or "you" works just fine when talking to them directly.

On all levels apart from physical, I identify as an Apache Helicopter.

[Martinus]

As I said, about the only time you'll need to remember someone's third-person pronoun is when you talk about them to someone else.

Why would they care, though, if they are not even part of the conversation?

And in such a case you probably know them well enough to remember their pronoun. Their name or "you" works just fine when talking to them directly.

Wtf.  I very often talk about people I encounter without even knowing their name, not to mention their preferred pronoun. I think most people are the same.

I mean the whole story was about a professor refusing to use the "preferred pronoun" for students. A professor probably encounters 100+ different students each year. I doubt by the end of the semester he or she (or ze?) remembers all of their names - not to mention their preferred pronouns.

Seriously, it's pretty funny to see you tie yourself in knots over this. It is clearly something you haven't thought through in any depth as it is just accepted as a dogma in your echo chamber of progressives - that's why your explanations and arguments, when actually challenged about it, come across as so puerile.

[Solmyr]

Because arguments for it have been made countless times and I don't feel like arguing them yet again because some asshole professor refuses to respect his students. Here's a writeup with a whole bunch of arguments (with a summarizing quote): https://letsqueerthingsup.com/2014/09/15/what-youre-actually-saying-when-you-ignore-someones-preferred-gender-pronouns/

WHAT YOU'RE ACTUALLY SAYING WHEN YOU IGNORE SOMEONE'S GENDER PRONOUNS
1. I know you better than you know yourself.
2. I would rather hurt you repeatedly than change the way I speak about you.
3. Your sense of safety is not important to me.
4. Your identity isn't real and shouldn't be acknowledged.
5. I want to teach everyone around me to disrespect you.
6. Offending you is fine if it makes me feel more comfortable.
7. I can hear you talking, but I'm not really listening.
8. Being who you truly are is an inconvenience to me.
9. I would prefer it if you stopped being honest with me.
10. I am not an ally, a friend, or someone you can trust.

No, I imagine that this isn't really what you are trying to say. But the intent is different from the impact. While you may not intend to say any of these things, that doesn't change how it impacts the person on the receiving end. When you misgender someone, these are some of the take away messages that are received when you invalidate them.

[Oexmelin]

The number of students who ask for a preferred pronoun is typically very small, and learning who they are is not some superhuman feat of memory, even when one has over a hundred students.

[Zanza]

WHAT YOU'RE ACTUALLY SAYING WHEN YOU IGNORE SOMEONE'S GENDER PRONOUNS
1. I know you better than you know yourself.
2. I would rather hurt you repeatedly than change the way I speak about you.
3. Your sense of safety is not important to me.
4. Your identity isn't real and shouldn't be acknowledged.
5. I want to teach everyone around me to disrespect you.
6. Offending you is fine if it makes me feel more comfortable.
7. I can hear you talking, but I'm not really listening.
8. Being who you truly are is an inconvenience to me.
9. I would prefer it if you stopped being honest with me.
10. I am not an ally, a friend, or someone you can trust.

11. I speak grammatically correct English.

[garbon]

Because arguments for it have been made countless times and I don't feel like arguing them yet again because some asshole professor refuses to respect his students. Here's a writeup with a whole bunch of arguments (with a summarizing quote): https://letsqueerthingsup.com/2014/09/15/what-youre-actually-saying-when-you-ignore-someones-preferred-gender-pronouns/

WHAT YOU'RE ACTUALLY SAYING WHEN YOU IGNORE SOMEONE'S GENDER PRONOUNS
1. I know you better than you know yourself.
2. I would rather hurt you repeatedly than change the way I speak about you.
3. Your sense of safety is not important to me.
4. Your identity isn't real and shouldn't be acknowledged.
5. I want to teach everyone around me to disrespect you.
6. Offending you is fine if it makes me feel more comfortable.
7. I can hear you talking, but I'm not really listening.
8. Being who you truly are is an inconvenience to me.
9. I would prefer it if you stopped being honest with me.
10. I am not an ally, a friend, or someone you can trust.

No, I imagine that this isn't really what you are trying to say. But the intent is different from the impact. While you may not intend to say any of these things, that doesn't change how it impacts the person on the receiving end. When you misgender someone, these are some of the take away messages that are received when you invalidate them.

As I said before just because someone wants a special accommodation doesn't mean that you are a dick you don't grant it.

The person who can be 'impacted' also has to own some responsibility on whether or not they should actually be taking those 10 offenses when a person doesn't do so.

[Solmyr]

11. I speak grammatically correct English.

Because language never, ever changes.

[Martinus]

3. Your sense of safety is not important to me.

Solmyr, can you explain this one to me?

[Martinus]

The number of students who ask for a preferred pronoun is typically very small, and learning who they are is not some superhuman feat of memory, even when one has over a hundred students.

Which is just as well a perfectly good argument why no special accomodation is needed for a very small number of people.

Not to mention, a proposition that college students never engage in any behaviour that is irrational, dishonest, prankish, trollish, or meant to create irritation and annoyance, is easily falsifiable.

[garbon]

11. I speak grammatically correct English.

Because language never, ever changes.

Doesn't make it anymore correct right now.

[Solmyr]

3. Your sense of safety is not important to me.

Solmyr, can you explain this one to me?

For a lawyer you really don't seem to like reading. The link I posted explains it quite well.

[Solmyr]

The number of students who ask for a preferred pronoun is typically very small, and learning who they are is not some superhuman feat of memory, even when one has over a hundred students.

Which is just as well a perfectly good argument why no special accomodation is needed for a very small number of people.

Actually, small minorities are precisely the groups that needs special accommodation to protect their rights.

[garbon]

What? Now this is a matter of rights?