Canadian professor under fire for refusing to use genderless pronouns

[Valmy]

god, god's if you will.

Though I would prefer a genderless pronoun to having to learn 800 pronouns for each new special gender.

Hey, here's a crazy idea - why don't we keep to the 2 genders we know?

Because, you know, there are more than two?

Not in English. In any case gender is supposedly a rather arbitrary concept no? If we are going to do any radical reforms to the concept it just makes sense to make it more simple and streamlined not more complicated.

[Valmy]

I guess my social circle is not diverse enough but I've never encountered this "more gender pronouns" outside rants about it on the internet.

Same.

[celedhring]

It's funny though, because in Spanish words like "presidente", "doctor", "inventor" don't actually have morphological gender particles attached to them, but because of overwhelming societal discrimination (that is, no women presidents, doctors or inventors) they are seen as masculine words, and words which do carry gender marks (presidenta, doctora, inventora), were created naturally for the "exceptions" (or worse, if you look up words like "presidenta" in really old Spanish dictionaries, you'll get "the wife of the president").

[Solmyr]

god, god's if you will.

Though I would prefer a genderless pronoun to having to learn 800 pronouns for each new special gender.

Hey, here's a crazy idea - why don't we keep to the 2 genders we know?

Because, you know, there are more than two?

Not in English. In any case gender is supposedly a rather arbitrary concept no? If we are going to do any radical reforms to the concept it just makes sense to make it more simple and streamlined not more complicated.

Er, I am referring to a person's gender of course, not to linguistic one. It's fairly well-established that everyone does not fit into male/female gender division.

And as I said, referring to a person by the pronoun they want is not that hard.  Ignoring the "800 different genders" strawman arguments, the only reason you would refuse to do so is purposefully being an asshole. Obviously, Martinus fits into that category, but I'm not sure it's a good idea to keep him company in there.

[Valmy]

Er, I am referring to a person's gender of course, not to linguistic one. It's fairly well-established that everyone does not fit into male/female gender division.

It is supposedly a totally arbitrary social distinction so how can it be fairly well established? We can just arbitrarily expand the gender division to make it so everybody pretty much does.

And as I said, referring to a person by the pronoun they want is not that hard.

Yes it is. I have a very hard time remembering people's names. I sure as hell do not want to live in a world where I would give grave insult if I also got their pronoun wrong.

Ignoring the "800 different genders" strawman arguments, the only reason you would refuse to do so is purposefully being an asshole.

I would never intentionally do so. But why? Why do this? What benefit does it serve? We have done a pretty good job making life less formal and more relaxed in its social burdens. Why invent more? Besides if gender is truly oppressive and arbitrary then why make it also more complicated? Why not just get rid of it and have one gender?

Obviously, Martinus fits into that category, but I'm not sure it's a good idea to keep him company in there.

Oh fuck you. Talk about a strawman.

[HVC]

To play it safe I shall refer to everyone as  Shme and shmer

[Solmyr]

Yes it is. I have a very hard time remembering people's names. I sure as hell do not want to live in a world where I would give grave insult if I also got their pronoun wrong.

We can't base things on you being forgetful, though. If you are completely unable to remember people's names and pronouns, then that's a problem with your social communication, not with gender pronouns.

I would never intentionally do so. But why? Why do this? What benefit does it serve? We have done a pretty good job making life less formal and more relaxed in its social burdens. Why invent more? Besides if gender is truly oppressive and arbitrary then why make it also more complicated? Why not just get rid of it and have one gender?

Because gender (male, female, or other) can be part of a person's identity?

[garbon]

Yes it is. I have a very hard time remembering people's names. I sure as hell do not want to live in a world where I would give grave insult if I also got their pronoun wrong.

I don't think you are likely to run into all that many people making a request.

I would never intentionally do so. But why? Why do this? What benefit does it serve? We have done a pretty good job making life less formal and more relaxed in its social burdens. Why invent more? Besides if gender is truly oppressive and arbitrary then why make it also more complicated? Why not just get rid of it and have one gender?

It makes them feel supported and happy. Other than your apparent inability to even remember people's names, I don't see what skin off your back that this could possibly be.

[Valmy]

Because gender (male, female, or other) can be part of a person's identity?

So? Anything can be part of a person's identity. Being a blacksmith was part of many people's identities but the world moved on.

We can't base things on you being forgetful, though. If you are completely unable to remember people's names and pronouns, then that's a problem with your social communication, not with gender pronouns.

Hey you are the one who said the only reason I would fuck this up is because I am intentionally being an asshole. How lovely.

[Valmy]

Yes it is. I have a very hard time remembering people's names. I sure as hell do not want to live in a world where I would give grave insult if I also got their pronoun wrong.

I don't think you are likely to run into all that many people making a request.

I would never intentionally do so. But why? Why do this? What benefit does it serve? We have done a pretty good job making life less formal and more relaxed in its social burdens. Why invent more? Besides if gender is truly oppressive and arbitrary then why make it also more complicated? Why not just get rid of it and have one gender?

It makes them feel supported and happy. Other than your apparent inability to even remember people's names, I don't see what skin off your back that this could possibly be.

Oh FFS. I have already said I would never intentionally use the wrong pronoun and I would do my very best to accommodate them. Why was that statement ignored?

I am talking about this as a concept of gender that should be generally used in society. I have issues with it.

[Eddie Teach]

We already have a third choice- it.

[garbon]

Yes it is. I have a very hard time remembering people's names. I sure as hell do not want to live in a world where I would give grave insult if I also got their pronoun wrong.

I don't think you are likely to run into all that many people making a request.

I would never intentionally do so. But why? Why do this? What benefit does it serve? We have done a pretty good job making life less formal and more relaxed in its social burdens. Why invent more? Besides if gender is truly oppressive and arbitrary then why make it also more complicated? Why not just get rid of it and have one gender?

It makes them feel supported and happy. Other than your apparent inability to even remember people's names, I don't see what skin off your back that this could possibly be.

Oh FFS. I have already said I would never intentionally use the wrong pronoun and I would do my very best to accommodate them. Why was that statement ignored?

I am talking about this as a concept of gender that should be generally used in society. I have issues with it.

You are acting hysterical.

[Malthus]

I have never in my life met anyone who wanted a different form of address. If I did, I'd accommodate them of course: the goal of politeness is, after all, to avoid unnecessary social friction. However, if it became a common thing (rather than a vanishing rarity) it would make social communication more awkward than necessary, and so hopefully it will not catch on.

It is easy to remember X, who is the only one you know who insists on a special pronoun. It will become more difficult and awkward if the number wanting a special form of address increases beyond the rare.

[Eddie Teach]

Call me Maestro.

[Solmyr]

I have never in my life met anyone who wanted a different form of address. If I did, I'd accommodate them of course: the goal of politeness is, after all, to avoid unnecessary social friction. However, if it became a common thing (rather than a vanishing rarity) it would make social communication more awkward than necessary, and so hopefully it will not catch on.

It is easy to remember X, who is the only one you know who insists on a special pronoun. It will become more difficult and awkward if the number wanting a special form of address increases beyond the rare.

Fortunately, this is not a problem and I doubt it will ever be.