Mass killing in Orlando gay nightclub

[viper37]

More to the point is that it just isn't going to work.

A handgun is a pretty shitty weapon for anything but very short range. Compared to an assault rifle, you are pretty fucked unless you can close the range up a bit without being seen.

Really depends on the situation.  Obviously if you're a good distance away with lots of open space, you aren't likely to successfully enter ninja mode and get the drop on him.  But in a chaotic situation with a lone gunner, who knows where you'll be and what situation you'll find yourself in?

Of course - certainly having a handgun would be better than nothing. I could imagine all kinds of scenarios where you could make a difference if you were careful and thoughtful about the situation.

I was just pointing out that a handgun is no equalizer to a guy with an assault rifle.

the likely situation in that Orlando bar would be an untrained civilian firing his gun while drunk in near darkness.  What are the odds he will actually hit the intended target instead of another civilian?

[Martinus]

[Phillip V]

Clinton calls for airstrikes against ISIS in Syria, joint public-private surveillance of lone wolves, ban on assault weapons

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/14/us/politics/donald-trump-hillary-clinton-speeches.html

[Martinus]

Clinton calls for airstrikes against ISIS in Syria, joint public-private surveillance of lone wolves, ban on assault weapons

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/14/us/politics/donald-trump-hillary-clinton-speeches.html

Good speech by both Clinton and Trump. At least in terms of rhetorics, she would be an improvement on Obama.

[Caliga]

Is it bad that I still sometimes think Bubba instead of Hil when I see 'Clinton' in headlines?

[Barrister]

Is it bad that I still sometimes think Bubba instead of Hil when I see 'Clinton' in headlines?

No (he was and is a pretty larger than life person), but it is kind-of odd.

[Martinus]

I like this part from Trump's speech.

Our nation stands together in solidarity with the members of Orlando's LGBT Community.

This is a very dark moment in America's history.

A radical Islamic terrorist targeted the nightclub not only because he wanted to kill Americans, but in order to execute gay and lesbian citizens because of their sexual orientation.

It is a strike at the heart and soul of who we are as a nation.

It is an assault on the ability of free people to live their lives, love who they want and express their identity.

It is an attack on the right of every single American to live in peace and safety in their own country.

That's more than Obama said.

[Martinus]

So the death tool has been revised down from 50 to 49, apparently not to include the shooter. Good.

[derspiess]

Is it bad that I still sometimes think Bubba instead of Hil when I see 'Clinton' in headlines?

I had that problem until sometime late last year. 

[Zanza]

I like this part from Trump's speech.

Our nation stands together in solidarity with the members of Orlando's LGBT Community.

This is a very dark moment in America's history.

A radical Islamic terrorist targeted the nightclub not only because he wanted to kill Americans, but in order to execute gay and lesbian citizens because of their sexual orientation.

It is a strike at the heart and soul of who we are as a nation.

It is an assault on the ability of free people to live their lives, love who they want and express their identity.

It is an attack on the right of every single American to live in peace and safety in their own country.

That's more than Obama said.

I fail to see any substantial difference with Obama's speech other than Obama being more cautious about the motivations of the killer as he wants to wait for the conclusion of the official investigations.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2016/06/12/president-obama-tragic-shooting-orlando

[Martinus]

The reported missing boyfriend of one of the victims (whose mother has been looking for him ever since) has been confirmed dead. 

[Barrister]

I disagree. Trump, despite running on a conservative platform, mentioned specifically victims being gay and their right to love whom they want and to express themselves how they want.

Trump is not running on a conservative platform.  See all the hand-wringing that's been going on in conservative circles.  Entering into enormous trade wars with half the world is not a conservative position.

hat being said it is true that I don't think I've ever heard Trump say anything remotely anti-gay.

[Martinus]

I disagree. Trump, despite running on a conservative platform, mentioned specifically victims being gay and their right to love whom they want and to express themselves how they want.

Trump is not running on a conservative platform.  See all the hand-wringing that's been going on in conservative circles.  Entering into enormous trade wars with half the world is not a conservative position.

That being said it is true that I don't think I've ever heard Trump say anything remotely anti-gay.

I know that. You know that. But there were many people here in this very thread (and elsewhere) who are saying that right wingers are now hypocritically expressing their compassion for gay people. So I wanted to set the record straight.

[Valmy]

I know that. You know that. But there were many people here in this very thread (and elsewhere) who are saying that right wingers are now hypocritically expressing their compassion for gay people. So I wanted to set the record straight.

I don't get how those go together.

[Malthus]

More to the point is that it just isn't going to work.

A handgun is a pretty shitty weapon for anything but very short range. Compared to an assault rifle, you are pretty fucked unless you can close the range up a bit without being seen.

Really depends on the situation.  Obviously if you're a good distance away with lots of open space, you aren't likely to successfully enter ninja mode and get the drop on him.  But in a chaotic situation with a lone gunner, who knows where you'll be and what situation you'll find yourself in?

Of course - certainly having a handgun would be better than nothing. I could imagine all kinds of scenarios where you could make a difference if you were careful and thoughtful about the situation.

I was just pointing out that a handgun is no equalizer to a guy with an assault rifle.

Indeed. Didn't this very guy have a confrontation with a security guard armed with a handgun, who was an off duty cop to boot? It didn't work.

Mateen was armed with a .223-caliber SIG Sauer AR-15-type rifle and a 9mm Glock handgun and approached the club.[4][5][6] An armed security guard, who was an Orlando Police Department (OPD) officer working extra duty in full uniform,[7] engaged Mateen, returning fire at 2:02 a.m. EDT.[8][9] Mateen was able to enter the building, however, and began shooting patrons just as last call was being announced.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Orlando_nightclub_shooting