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US Navy to Increase Submarine Production

Started by jimmy olsen, May 24, 2016, 03:03:17 AM

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Josquius

Quote from: Berkut on January 18, 2017, 09:53:31 AM
I know this is probably a non-starter, but....wouldn't it make sense for the UK to just buy a few Virginia class boats from the US, if they want some more attack subs?

Proven platform already in production where the US has paid all the development costs already....

Then that's giving jobs to the US rather than where they're really needed at home.
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Berkut

Quote from: Tyr on January 18, 2017, 10:38:13 AM
Quote from: Berkut on January 18, 2017, 09:53:31 AM
I know this is probably a non-starter, but....wouldn't it make sense for the UK to just buy a few Virginia class boats from the US, if they want some more attack subs?

Proven platform already in production where the US has paid all the development costs already....

Then that's giving jobs to the US rather than where they're really needed at home.

:bleeding:

Right, because the point of building multi-billion dollar weapons systems is to employ people.

Non-starter, like I said.
"If you think this has a happy ending, then you haven't been paying attention."

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Valmy

Quote from: Berkut on January 18, 2017, 10:48:22 AM

Right, because the point of building multi-billion dollar weapons systems is to employ people.

To be fair that is what many members of Congress think.
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grumbler

Quote from: Tyr on January 18, 2017, 10:38:13 AM
Quote from: Berkut on January 18, 2017, 09:53:31 AM
I know this is probably a non-starter, but....wouldn't it make sense for the UK to just buy a few Virginia class boats from the US, if they want some more attack subs?

Proven platform already in production where the US has paid all the development costs already....

Then that's giving jobs to the US rather than where they're really needed at home.

they could trade; let the Brits produce the light craft (1500 tons and less) that the US needs and Britain does well, and the US produces the subs that Britain needs and the US does well.
The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.   -G'Kar

Bayraktar!

FunkMonk

#19
Quote from: grumbler on January 18, 2017, 11:26:35 AM
Quote from: Tyr on January 18, 2017, 10:38:13 AM
Quote from: Berkut on January 18, 2017, 09:53:31 AM
I know this is probably a non-starter, but....wouldn't it make sense for the UK to just buy a few Virginia class boats from the US, if they want some more attack subs?

Proven platform already in production where the US has paid all the development costs already....

Then that's giving jobs to the US rather than where they're really needed at home.

they could trade; let the Brits produce the light craft (1500 tons and less) that the US needs and Britain does well, and the US produces the subs that Britain needs and the US does well.

Since when have basic economic principles done any good for anyone???
Person. Woman. Man. Camera. TV.

Berkut

I am going to vent a little idealism here.

Spending a couple of billion dollars per boat on something like a nuclear attakc submarine is a terrible, terrible idea for any nation. It is such a fucking huge waste of an incredible amount of money and resources.

It should NEVER be done unless there is some incredibly compelling reason to do so. In this case, I would argue that there is such a compelling reason.

But don't lose sight of the fact that spending resources on weapons is a black hole of fucking waste. It is terrible that we have to do so at all.

So if we are going to do it, it should be done is as efficient a manner as possible, with little or no concern for ancillary variables. If you want to create jobs, saving a couple hundred million per sub and investing that money in rational, direct job creation policies is almost certainly the smartest way to go about it - the number of jobs created as a "happy side effect" of spending billions on weapons systems is almost certainly a terrible, terrible investment from the standpoint of doing things to stimulate job growth.
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LaCroix

a strong military often leads to economic growth via indirect effects

Berkut

ALl that being said, IIRC the latest and greatest Brit attack boats are supposed to be pretty damn good, right?

Maybe WE should buy some from them, instead of the other way around...
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jimmy olsen

Quote from: Berkut on January 18, 2017, 12:07:11 PM
I am going to vent a little idealism here.

Spending a couple of billion dollars per boat on something like a nuclear attakc submarine is a terrible, terrible idea for any nation. It is such a fucking huge waste of an incredible amount of money and resources.

It should NEVER be done unless there is some incredibly compelling reason to do so. In this case, I would argue that there is such a compelling reason.

But don't lose sight of the fact that spending resources on weapons is a black hole of fucking waste. It is terrible that we have to do so at all.

How Eisenhowerian of you :)

https://youtu.be/aHhe8T-HmyY?t=61
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Faye: Ordinary. The kind of beautiful, dangerous ordinary that you just can't leave alone.
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Josquius

Quote from: grumbler on January 18, 2017, 11:26:35 AM
Quote from: Tyr on January 18, 2017, 10:38:13 AM
Quote from: Berkut on January 18, 2017, 09:53:31 AM
I know this is probably a non-starter, but....wouldn't it make sense for the UK to just buy a few Virginia class boats from the US, if they want some more attack subs?

Proven platform already in production where the US has paid all the development costs already....

Then that's giving jobs to the US rather than where they're really needed at home.

they could trade; let the Brits produce the light craft (1500 tons and less) that the US needs and Britain does well, and the US produces the subs that Britain needs and the US does well.

That sounds sensible.
The British electorate would never go for it.
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Drakken

Quote from: Zanza on May 24, 2016, 08:58:09 AM
If so it makes me wonder how much of the effort spent on military procurement is just waste and only exists in peacetime to create jobs in bureaucracy and earn money for the contractors.

You are onto something, here. :yes:

grumbler

Quote from: Berkut on January 18, 2017, 12:14:55 PM
ALl that being said, IIRC the latest and greatest Brit attack boats are supposed to be pretty damn good, right?

Maybe WE should buy some from them, instead of the other way around...

Their conventional subs are quite good (except the leaky ones they fobbed off on Canada).
The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.   -G'Kar

Bayraktar!

Berkut

No, I am talking about their Astute class that is only a couple years old. Supposed to be equivalent to the Virginia class, at least that is the claim. Maybe with a better sonar suite?
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grumbler

Quote from: Berkut on January 18, 2017, 04:39:55 PM
No, I am talking about their Astute class that is only a couple years old. Supposed to be equivalent to the Virginia class, at least that is the claim. Maybe with a better sonar suite?

They are pretty much after my time.  All I know of them is that they took forever to build. 
The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.   -G'Kar

Bayraktar!

CountDeMoney

Quote from: Berkut on January 18, 2017, 12:07:11 PM
I am going to vent a little idealism here.

Spending a couple of billion dollars per boat on something like a nuclear attakc submarine is a terrible, terrible idea for any nation. It is such a fucking huge waste of an incredible amount of money and resources.

It should NEVER be done unless there is some incredibly compelling reason to do so. In this case, I would argue that there is such a compelling reason.

But don't lose sight of the fact that spending resources on weapons is a black hole of fucking waste. It is terrible that we have to do so at all.

So if we are going to do it, it should be done is as efficient a manner as possible, with little or no concern for ancillary variables. If you want to create jobs, saving a couple hundred million per sub and investing that money in rational, direct job creation policies is almost certainly the smartest way to go about it - the number of jobs created as a "happy side effect" of spending billions on weapons systems is almost certainly a terrible, terrible investment from the standpoint of doing things to stimulate job growth.

LOL, that wasn't venting, that was an emergency blow.  Think you fucked up a Japanese whaler on that one, Skipper.