US Navy to Increase Submarine Production

[Ed Anger]

One ping only

[MadImmortalMan]

I know this is probably a non-starter, but....wouldn't it make sense for the UK to just buy a few Virginia class boats from the US, if they want some more attack subs?

Proven platform already in production where the US has paid all the development costs already....

Then that's giving jobs to the US rather than where they're really needed at home.

they could trade; let the Brits produce the light craft (1500 tons and less) that the US needs and Britain does well, and the US produces the subs that Britain needs and the US does well.

If what Tyr says is true, and the British yards are just dicking around doing unproductive work anyway, then maybe let them build the excess ones EB and NN can't ramp up capacity for. Just, you know, give them some deadlines and contractual protections against tomfoolery and secrets leakage.

[grumbler]

I know this is probably a non-starter, but....wouldn't it make sense for the UK to just buy a few Virginia class boats from the US, if they want some more attack subs?

Proven platform already in production where the US has paid all the development costs already....

Then that's giving jobs to the US rather than where they're really needed at home.

they could trade; let the Brits produce the light craft (1500 tons and less) that the US needs and Britain does well, and the US produces the subs that Britain needs and the US does well.

If what Tyr says is true, and the British yards are just dicking around doing unproductive work anyway, then maybe let them build the excess ones EB and NN can't ramp up capacity for. Just, you know, give them some deadlines and contractual protections against tomfoolery and secrets leakage.

I don't believe the Brits have the capacity to build more nuclear subs.  They've got two classes of their own under construction.

The problem the Brits have is that they don't operate enough SSNs to support a domestic production capability.  The seventh Astute class sub will enter service 24 years after the first one was laid down.  There's no way that design won't be obsolete by then.  But the RN can't afford to build smaller classes because designs cost so much these days.

A lot of people don't appreciate the extent to which the US and UK cooperated in R&D and production in WW2, or how vital that cooperation was to success.  The proximity-fuzed AA shell, for instance, was invented by British boffins, but they couldn't figure out how to make it manufacturable on a large scale.  They turned it oer to the American boffins, who changed the materials used and got it into production very quickly (and shells started pouring out in vast numbers).  That development probably quadrupled the effectiveness of Allied AA.  It was hugely important in naval successes during the war, including D-Day, as well as shooting down V-1s.  No other nation or alliance could make such a thing.

I think that there are things the British military procurement system does well, and other things that the US procurement system does well.  Standardizing and specializing would cost neither side jobs or money, and would get better kit to everyone.  Maybe the Aussies could play a role, as well.  Those countries wouldn't have any reason to fear being cut off from supplies from the others.

[celedhring]

If stuff like the Eurofighter or Atlas programs is anything to go by, spreading military procurement between several countries is hell. Maybe you anglos can do it better, but dunno.

[Maladict]

Buying overseas isn't a picknick either. Exhibit A: F-35.

[grumbler]

If stuff like the Eurofighter or Atlas programs is anything to go by, spreading military procurement between several countries is hell. Maybe you anglos can do it better, but dunno.

That's not what i said.  The Virginia class SSNs are not an example of "spreading military procurement between several countries."  They are made in the US.  If the US made an additional 6 Virginia-class SSNs at a cost of, say, $9 billion, and sold them to Britain, it would get $9 billion in credits to buy something that the British make well; say, the follow-ons to the 1500 ton patrol vessels in the RN, RAN, and RNZN inventories; the bloat in size and cost of the USN's "littoral combat ship" (now about 70% as expensive as the DDG-51 class destroyer) demonstrates that the US cannot do smaller ships.

[PJL]

What the UK should be doing is designing the military vehicles and equipment, and then licencing it out to the Americans to manufacture for both militaries. That way it's win-win.

[grumbler]

What the UK should be doing is designing the military vehicles and equipment, and then licencing it out to the Americans to manufacture for both militaries. That way it's win-win.

Where are the British jobs in that scheme?

[CountDeMoney]

What the UK should be doing is designing the military vehicles and equipment, and then licencing it out to the Americans to manufacture for both militaries. That way it's win-win.

And subcontracting for assembly in Asia.  Win-win-win.

[11B4V]

What the UK should be doing is designing the military vehicles and equipment, and then licencing it out to the Americans to manufacture for both militaries. That way it's win-win.

And subcontracting for assembly in Asia.  Win-win-win.

Japs would get in on that.

[Threviel]

I know this is probably a non-starter, but....wouldn't it make sense for the UK to just buy a few Virginia class boats from the US, if they want some more attack subs?

Proven platform already in production where the US has paid all the development costs already....

Then that's giving jobs to the US rather than where they're really needed at home.

they could trade; let the Brits produce the light craft (1500 tons and less) that the US needs and Britain does well, and the US produces the subs that Britain needs and the US does well.

If what Tyr says is true, and the British yards are just dicking around doing unproductive work anyway, then maybe let them build the excess ones EB and NN can't ramp up capacity for. Just, you know, give them some deadlines and contractual protections against tomfoolery and secrets leakage.

The problem the Brits have is that they don't operate enough SSNs to support a domestic production capability.  The seventh Astute class sub will enter service 24 years after the first one was laid down.  There's no way that design won't be obsolete by then.  But the RN can't afford to build smaller classes because designs cost so much these days.

So, that would mean the US navy buying type 45s instead of Arleigh Burkes?

[grumbler]

So, that would mean the US navy buying type 45s instead of Arleigh Burkes?

I don't think the USN could afford the greater cost and lesser capabilities. It would have made more sense for the RN to buy Arleigh Burkes.

[CountDeMoney]

"Why is the Navy naming ships after women? Arleigh Burke hasn't been in a movie in decades.  Makes us look weak.  So sad!"

[Threviel]

So, that would mean the US navy buying type 45s instead of Arleigh Burkes?

I don't think the USN could afford the greater cost and lesser capabilities. It would have made more sense for the RN to buy Arleigh Burkes.

i was referring to the age of the design. Surely age, in and of it self, is not a sign of obsolescence. What would that say of the Los Angeles? Or the Nimitz class?

[Tonitrus]

"Why is the Navy naming ships after women? Arleigh Burke hasn't been in a movie in decades.  Makes us look weak.  So sad!"

In Trump's naval expansion plans:  MAGA-class Battleships.