Second Viking site in North America discovered?

Started by Caliga, March 31, 2016, 07:54:27 PM

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Habbaku

The medievals were only too right in taking nolo episcopari as the best reason a man could give to others for making him a bishop. Give me a king whose chief interest in life is stamps, railways, or race-horses; and who has the power to sack his Vizier (or whatever you care to call him) if he does not like the cut of his trousers.

Government is an abstract noun meaning the art and process of governing and it should be an offence to write it with a capital G or so as to refer to people.

-J. R. R. Tolkien

celedhring

Quote from: derspiess on April 01, 2016, 10:39:05 AM
Quote from: viper37 on April 01, 2016, 10:03:27 AM
Nah. I like the fact it gets people discussing history. Also reveals that Columbus was a weirdo and psycho.


Everyone was a weirdo back then by modern standards.  I don't understand why Columbus gets singled out. 

Anyway it's considered the ethnic holiday for Eyetalian-Americans.  Let it stay.

It's also Spain's national day. I admit it was a bit of a shock to see all the Italian flags parading around New York - in my first year there - in what back home is Spain's big one.  :D

Norgy

If I had to choose a religion, it'd be Catholicism. Francis is a rockstar. And it has confession.

Razgovory

I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

Norgy


derspiess

Quote from: Jacob on April 01, 2016, 02:07:26 PM
Quote from: Valmy on April 01, 2016, 02:03:28 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on April 01, 2016, 02:02:08 PM
Elaborate.

Highly educated and skilled at rhetoric.

Sometimes in favour of liberal principles and the interests of the poor.

Socialist revolutionaries, to be more precise.
"If you can play a guitar and harmonica at the same time, like Bob Dylan or Neil Young, you're a genius. But make that extra bit of effort and strap some cymbals to your knees, suddenly people want to get the hell away from you."  --Rich Hall

derspiess

Quote from: celedhring on April 01, 2016, 02:37:35 PM
It's also Spain's national day. I admit it was a bit of a shock to see all the Italian flags parading around New York - in my first year there - in what back home is Spain's big one.  :D

If we had had a large Spanish migration here (and now that I think of it, too bad we didn't-- there is a distinct lack of Spanish restaurants in the US) it would have been interesting to see the Guidos and Spaniards fighting over the holiday. 
"If you can play a guitar and harmonica at the same time, like Bob Dylan or Neil Young, you're a genius. But make that extra bit of effort and strap some cymbals to your knees, suddenly people want to get the hell away from you."  --Rich Hall

The Brain

Quote from: Norgy on April 01, 2016, 03:29:04 PM
If I had to choose a religion, it'd be Catholicism. Francis is a rockstar. And it has confession.

You mean he's a douche?
Women want me. Men want to be with me.

citizen k

Quote from: derspiess on April 01, 2016, 03:46:47 PM
Quote from: Jacob on April 01, 2016, 02:07:26 PM
Quote from: Valmy on April 01, 2016, 02:03:28 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on April 01, 2016, 02:02:08 PM
Elaborate.

Highly educated and skilled at rhetoric.

Sometimes in favour of liberal principles and the interests of the poor.

Socialist revolutionaries, to be more precise.

And Gonzaga Bulldogs.

11B4V

"there's a long tradition of insulting people we disagree with here, and I'll be damned if I listen to your entreaties otherwise."-OVB

"Obviously not a Berkut-commanded armored column.  They're not all brewing."- CdM

"We've reached one of our phase lines after the firefight and it smells bad—meaning it's a little bit suspicious... Could be an amb—".

Eddie Teach

Quote from: Barrister on April 01, 2016, 11:22:31 AM
What's wrong with the Society of Jesus? :yeahright:

The same thing that's wrong with you, Malthus, and Martinus.  :P
To sleep, perchance to dream. But in that sleep of death, what dreams may come?

Siege

Wasn't this thread about vikings or something?


"All men are created equal, then some become infantry."

"Those who beat their swords into plowshares will plow for those who don't."

"Laissez faire et laissez passer, le monde va de lui même!"


Norgy

Probably. But they weren't vikings.

"Going viking" was going to plunder and pillage.
The rather huge population growth in the Nordic countries after 700 led to a huge hunger for new land, so Norse people of various countries that exist nowadays went to find new places to live. Lots of Norse from what is now Sweden went east to the areas around Novgorod and founded Holmgard, and further down the Don river to Kiev.
The ones from what is Denmark today went west and really made the land now known as England suffer.
The Norse in Norway colonised the isles in the North Sea, parts of Ireland, settled Iceland. And probably either inter-married or genocided whatever people found on those desolate isles.
The expeditions westwards towards Greenland and North America were made by Norse settlers in Iceland and then Greenland.

While the planet was making agriculture possible on Greenland in the 12th century and onwards, there was still not enough arable land, so I find it likely that settlers carried on westwards even after New Foundland.
The Norse settlers on Greenland were like most Norse; proud. So having cows unsuitable for grassing on what little grassland there was, was much more honourable than having sheep or goats, which would have been far more suitable.
Settlements in North America probably died out due to three possible explanations:
1) Massacres by the natives. Not unlikely, but the Norse were good at co-opting local customs. The more likely scenario is that they just became part of the native Americans after a while.
2) Trying to find fields for cows. New Foundland, while I have never been there, looks like a poor place to raise cattle. I am sure they raised pigs, but pigs, like humans eat anything. Meat was important in certain settings for the Norse.
3) Disease. It's possible they all just succumbed to scurvy or something.


MadImmortalMan

Strange they never managed to occupy the Irish countryside then. The island can support something like 1 cow per acre.
"Stability is destabilizing." --Hyman Minsky

"Complacency can be a self-denying prophecy."
"We have nothing to fear but lack of fear itself." --Larry Summers

Norgy

They settled around where Dublin is today and further south.

In Ireland, they met Celts ready to fight.