Muslims kill more Christians, this time in Pakistan

[Martinus]

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-pakistan-blast-idUSKCN0WT0HR

Do we need a mega thread for Muslim terrorism?

[Jaron]

I'll get the ball rolling here and save viper some time.

"The people committing these acts aren't Muslims. They are terrorists hijacking Islam for their own purposes. 99.99% of Muslims are peaceful members of society."

[MadImmortalMan]

I once worked with a Pakistani Christian guy. He used to always have an icon of Mary hanging from the rear view mirror of his 1980s Mercedes. He had three of those cars, all identical. All with icons in them. His name...Mohammad. 

[viper37]

I'll get the ball rolling here and save viper some time.

"The people committing these acts aren't Muslims. They are terrorists hijacking Islam for their own purposes. 99.99% of Muslims are peaceful members of society."

it is true.  The problem with Islam lies much deeper than "it's a violent religion !!!!". It is simplistic and not helpful to the problem to reduce it as such.

Budhist on muslim violence exists and is the norm in some countries.
Christian has had a pretty violent past, from the moment it became the dominant religion. Christian on Christian violence is still more or less the norm in parts of Ireland.
The Sikh have bombed a plane or two in their heydays.

Yet, we don't try to fight Christianity, or even Catholicism.  We don't prohibit Sikh activities.  We find ways to deal with the local terror groups.

All religion have the potential for terror and can be diverted from their origianl purpose by men.

It's up to us to fight the good fights and clear our countries of religious fanatics, no matter the religion. 

Besides, there are more terrorist attacks committed by leftists and ecologists than muslims.  Now, if you tell me we should get rid of the hard left and the crazy greens, I'm listening

[Valmy]

it is true.  The problem with Islam lies much deeper than "it's a violent religion !!!!". It is simplistic and not helpful to the problem to reduce it as such.

Well of course. It is not like 200 years ago Islamic terrorism was a thing. It is a crisis in current Islam though and must have an Islamic solution.

[Valmy]

Besides, there are more terrorist attacks committed by leftists and ecologists than muslims.  Now, if you tell me we should get rid of the hard left and the crazy greens, I'm listening

Right now? No, Islamic terrorists control vast regions of the world and are currently threatening multiple minority populations with genocide. Historically? Not even close, but we did recently conduct a vast effort to defeat the hard left.

[alfred russel]

It is not like 200 years ago Islamic terrorism was a thing.

Some greeks and other balkan peoples may disagree.

[Razgovory]

Besides, there are more terrorist attacks committed by leftists and ecologists than muslims.  Now, if you tell me we should get rid of the hard left and the crazy greens, I'm listening

I don't know of any terrorist attacks committed by an ecologist.  Is this like a mad scientist sort of thing?

[alfred russel]

Besides, there are more terrorist attacks committed by leftists and ecologists than muslims.  Now, if you tell me we should get rid of the hard left and the crazy greens, I'm listening

I don't know of any terrorist attacks committed by an ecologist.  Is this like a mad scientist sort of thing?

I don't know man. Take Dian Fossey--disappearing into the jungle like FARC or some other radical group. She even met a violent end. In interviews she said she was there for the gorillas, but do you know she never actually wrote that she was there for gorillas? If she did I bet she would have spelled it "guerillas".

[Eddie Teach]

Well of course. It is not like 200 years ago Islamic terrorism was a thing. It is a crisis in current Islam though and must have an Islamic solution.

The Barbary pirates were the Islamic terrorists of their day.

[Jaron]

Well of course. It is not like 200 years ago Islamic terrorism was a thing. It is a crisis in current Islam though and must have an Islamic solution.

The Barbary pirates were the Islamic terrorists of their day.

Suleyman, Saladin and Barbarossa were the original Islamic terrorists.

[Camerus]

Christian on Christian violence is still more or less the norm in parts of Ireland.

Is that actually true?

Also, the problem with the "other religions do it too" argument is (1) an issue of scale and (2) the fact that you have to reach back centuries (at least in the case of Christianity) in order to find remotely comparable examples.

[viper37]

it is true.  The problem with Islam lies much deeper than "it's a violent religion !!!!". It is simplistic and not helpful to the problem to reduce it as such.

Well of course. It is not like 200 years ago Islamic terrorism was a thing. It is a crisis in current Islam though and must have an Islamic solution.

it is a simple problem.  Yet, very complex in its nature.

Most of the arab world has flirted with socialisme&communism during the cold war, they inherited two feelings:
1- The West is the ennemy
2- We are victimes of the West.

That is the local culture it breeds.  You have religion mixing with politics, never a good thing, no matter the religion.

We talk of islamic terrorism, and given the nazi-like structure of ISIS, it is appropriate.  But in the past, many such groups have recruited non muslims to "fight" with them.  And while not fighting directly, you'll find a lot of these non muslims agreeing with the "cause".

So, I feel, that to reduce it to a simple question of Islam = Evil is totally missing the point.

Nazism was many thing, sometimes Christian, sometimes Pagan, sometimes Atheist.  But it was an ideology we fought by dislodging the supporters of that ideology from our countries.  Fascists were arrested and it became illegal for them to cheer on the deaths on non nazis.  We fought the ideological war as well as the military war.  MacKenzie King did not proclaim Nazi worshippers as friends of the State.  Nazis in the US found themselves on hard times with Roosevelt in power.  Churchill purge the country of nazi sympathizers too.

Of course, we went overboard with the detention camps for all Japanese (and Germans? I don't really know).  But at the basic level, we did not tolerate support for the ennemy.  And that's what we are missing right now.

You can't imagine a man of 1941 swearing an oath of citizenship with his Nazi armband.  You can't imagine a Japanese man swearing fealty to the Emperor of Japan before he becomes a Canadian citizen.  Yet, we allow this today.

On the extreme right, we lump all muslims together, they're all terrorists, until such time as they have proven themselves to be loyal beyond any possible doubt, and even then.  On the other side, the left will proclaim all muslims are peaceful until such time as they detonate themselves in a crowded area, totally ignoring the radicalization process and its symbols.

Neither approach works, neither is efficient.  But we are still divided among ourselves.

[viper37]

Is that actually true?

The IRA is still officially active, but it's not like it used to be.

Also, the problem with the "other religions do it too" argument is (1) an issue of scale and (2) the fact that you have to reach back centuries (at least in the case of Christianity) in order to find remotely comparable examples.

True.  We grew out of it.  We do not slaughter each other for our religious differences anymore.  We only slaughter ourselves for our skin colour, apparently.

The point is, it's not related solely to Islam, there is a deep victimization feeling coming from these countries that comes only partly from the religion.  You hear the same discourse you hear from our leftist nuts, yet, it is mixed with religion and a feeling life will be better for everyone they love once they are gone.

If you're looking for facts, you have to look at the number of islamic terrorists vs the number of muslims in the world today.  Even if there were 1 million ISIS fighters, that's still a small fraction of the total number of muslim practionner.

You have to look much deeper than the religion.

[viper37]

Well of course. It is not like 200 years ago Islamic terrorism was a thing. It is a crisis in current Islam though and must have an Islamic solution.

The Barbary pirates were the Islamic terrorists of their day.

Suleyman, Saladin and Barbarossa were the original Islamic terrorists.

And Richard the Lionhearted as well as Guy de Lusignan, noble heroes?