Calling all Christians - how well do you know your doctrine?

[Martinus]

I have to wonder if that's something that non-Catholics are taught.  I'll have to ask some of the locals.

I was raised Lutheran, and it wasn't something we were taught.
The most important thing about crucifixition and resurrection was that Christ died for our sins.
Granted, the Norwegian Lutheran Church isn't very fire and brimstone, but the sacrifice of Jesus on behalf of mankind was really the only important thing about Easter. No wonder we had Quisling. Should've given that lecture about Judas too.

The Harrowing is also about the sacrifice of Jesus - not only he gets killed to save the mankind, but instead of resting, when he is temporarily dead, he goes to hell to save the pagan souls there. And in more meta terms, it just shows that before you can be resurrected and undergo the apotheosis, you have to go through hell first.

[Norgy]

Poor Jesus gets even more work in Catholicism. 

[Martinus]

Seems a bit problematic on the whole allowing non-believers into heaven bit. Why was that only a one time deal? Surely there were lots of other people who were still living after Christ's death who never even had the chance to be Christians as it was still an unknown creed to them.

According to the Catholic doctrine, post-Harrowing, the virtuous pagans go to Limbo and get a chance to be saved in the second round, during the Second Coming. I mean, it's not like Jesus can do this stuff all the time - it would cause too much upheaval in hell, I presume.

[Martinus]

Even for Catholics I think it is a pretty obscure reference - definitely not something that is frequently mentioned.

Other than in the Apostles Creed.  "He descended into the dead"

Yeah but the way it is translated into most languages, I think people just think it is a flowery way of saying he was buried.

[Berkut]

Seems a bit problematic on the whole allowing non-believers into heaven bit. Why was that only a one time deal? Surely there were lots of other people who were still living after Christ's death who never even had the chance to be Christians as it was still an unknown creed to them.

According to the Catholic doctrine, post-Harrowing, the virtuous pagans go to Limbo and get a chance to be saved in the second round, during the Second Coming. I mean, it's not like Jesus can do this stuff all the time - it would cause too much upheaval in hell, I presume.

He is omnipotent. Of course he could do it all the time, and with only as much upheaval as he desires. If he wants to do it with zero upheaval, it would be so.

If he wanted to have a system where everyone was saved no matter what they did, and have that system be perfectly just and merciful, it could be that way as well.

[Martinus]

That's why I think Christianity works much better with reincarnation - that way you get another chance if you don't get saved on your first run.

[Berkut]

That's why I think Christianity works much better with reincarnation - that way you get another chance if you don't get saved on your first run.

Why go to the trouble?

Just have everyone be saved on the first run to begin with, and save the hassle.

[Norgy]

Not really sure I want to be saved. There'd be a dry heaven, no abortions and Ted Cruz might be there.

[Eddie Teach]

Even for Catholics I think it is a pretty obscure reference - definitely not something that is frequently mentioned.

Other than in the Apostles Creed.  "He descended into the dead"

I learned "descended into hell".

[Martinus]

That's why I think Christianity works much better with reincarnation - that way you get another chance if you don't get saved on your first run.

Why go to the trouble?

Just have everyone be saved on the first run to begin with, and save the hassle.

You can't force people with those things.

[Martinus]

Not really sure I want to be saved. There'd be a dry heaven, no abortions and Ted Cruz might be there.

Precisely. Rather tha dissolving yourself in the Divine, you may wish another go. It's pain and pleasure in equal measure, but you might still wish for new experiences.

[Berkut]

That's why I think Christianity works much better with reincarnation - that way you get another chance if you don't get saved on your first run.

Why go to the trouble?

Just have everyone be saved on the first run to begin with, and save the hassle.

You can't force people with those things.

Who said anything about forcing anyone? Jesus could save everyone without forcing anyone. He is omnipotent. He could set it up so everyone is saved, while still enjoying complete free will.

And really?

You don't think "Be saved or suffer in eternal torture" force?

[Martinus]

And from a certain perspective, pain and pleasure is really the same kind of neural excitement.

[Martinus]

That's why I think Christianity works much better with reincarnation - that way you get another chance if you don't get saved on your first run.

Why go to the trouble?

Just have everyone be saved on the first run to begin with, and save the hassle.

You can't force people with those things.

Who said anything about forcing anyone? Jesus could save everyone without forcing anyone. He is omnipotent. He could set it up so everyone is saved, while still enjoying complete free will.

And really?

You don't think "Be saved or suffer in eternal torture" force?

I clarify this more in the response to Norgy. I think "being saved" is more like "being dissolved in the Divine" as opposed to maintaining your identity and ego - which is a source of pain and suffering (as you are separated from the Divine) but still can be fun.

I mean the eternal torture of damnation is really a product of lurid minds of medieval monks - what really makes hell the eternal damnation is being separated from the Divine - some people may wish to postpone the union.

[Valmy]

Seems a bit problematic on the whole allowing non-believers into heaven bit. Why was that only a one time deal? Surely there were lots of other people who were still living after Christ's death who never even had the chance to be Christians as it was still an unknown creed to them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBWe6um41KU