Brexit and the waning days of the United Kingdom

[Razgovory]

Interesting thing I learned recently from Ted Gioia's Substack.  One technique Hunter S Thompson used to teach himself prose style was to retype (using a mechanical typewriter of course) the entire contents of The Great Gatsby and A Farewell to Arms.  It was a way to get him to directly experience the process of writing great prose. 

That's really clever.

[Neil]

Jos, what do you think that students are learning when they use AI to write essay-style history exams for them? 

[Josquius]

The siren song is the idea that one can make produce good work faster by using the AI to do the basics and get to mediocre and then touching it up.  The problem is that that process does not actually replicate the process of generating great work.  It might train someone to be an editor but not a writer.

I find you get much better results by doing a first draft yourself, getting the AI to then go over this very rough version, then doing the polished final version yourself.
Still risky, AI has a habit of forgetting things and making changes for the sake of changes, but usually does an OK job of fixing phrasing, suggesting other ways to say things, etc...

Why?

A take-home exam is indeed a hybrid between a research and ensuring that student did the work of doing the reading each week, and thus have succeeded in creating a structure for varying types of historical explanation, and historiography.

Many students in history are aiming to teach in secondary education. I don't do cramming, because no one's life is on the line in history, and teachers - one hopes - can prepare their sessions in advance. But I do need to make sure they have a basic framework in chronology, some common references - i.e, that they will not simply be utterly clueless the moment they get a question outside of the narrow band of history programs. 

But surely with a take home exam you don't necessarily need this?
If you ask me to write an essay about the causes of WW1 and I haven't got a clue when WW1 even started, even assuming pre-AI here, easy enough to look that up.

A lot of the humanities rely on the written word as an integral part of their epistemology. It's not simply incidental, a neutral tool: it`s part of what you learn. Thus, the problem with AI.

As said I'm coming at it from science angle.
I can't say what works and what doesn't in other subjects, but in most of HCI there's definitely still space for take home exams.

Realistically, that would mean that all history conducted at the undergraduate level would concern 19th-21st century in English (or French, or German, etc.). Most students don't have the linguistic capacity to properly interrogate sources in Ancient Greek, or Arabic, or even Old English. It's standard practice in US universities to hand out translated sources, but I was always ambivalent toward it, because it often gave the illusion that learning about ancient / other cultures is easy and tended to flatten diversity into contemporary categories.

19th century Englishman's take on ancient Egyptian artifact and what it means for Egypt and how this differs to what we know today?
I guess there's non-written sources to talk about too, but maybe going outside your realm and into archaeology.
No idea what exact part of history you're teaching so I guess it really differs there.
If its a module about the causes of WW1 then there's so much mainstream stuff AI has devoured so you could be out of luck (though still....contrast this more obscure source, scanned in a way that messes with the AI, with the general view?) though if its a more niche topic then you could still have sources that can't be just quickly googled/AId?

One thing I found was that students use AI as writing partners. Which isn't a bad use of AI. I just find it a sad reflection of the atomization of students (they no longer use their peers as writing partners), and they trust it much more than they would trust their peers...

Maybe. For me, as a paranoid zero confidence introvert though I wasn't going to be asking other people anyway :p

I guess to consider here too is people who have disabilities or don't have English as a first language. Being able to properly present their thoughts the way they want is great here.

It's not a bad outlook. Think of it this way: the challenge, in history, isn't to "problem-solve", i.e., to "figure out what are the causes of WWI", much like in English, it isn't about "finding the hidden meaning in "The Sound and the Fury". The challenge is to construct, creatively, with fallible words, some element of historical, or literary reality.

As I say I didn't do history beyond A-Level. But a key part of it at that level was around examining sources, critiquing their bias, etc... whilst at the same time demonstrating that you actually do know the facts.
I hate exams and these ones were no different. Always had to shoot below your actual level to try and tick the boxes that are required for the grades they're likely to give you.

Sounds like you're saying use of English is a key part of how you judge?

[Oexmelin]

But surely with a take home exam you don't necessarily need this?
If you ask me to write an essay about the causes of WW1 and I haven't got a clue when WW1 even started, even assuming pre-AI here, easy enough to look that up.

I don't understand what you mean.

19th century Englishman's take on ancient Egyptian artifact and what it means for Egypt and how this differs to what we know today?

That's a great example of what I would consider a good take-home exam, and one that I and many colleagues use whenever we teach about ancient peoples, or oral-transmission societies (in my case, North American Indigenous people) - though I would usually ask them to reflect about the reasons for the difference in treatment, rather than simply pointing out differences. That reflexive stance is a crucial part of learning about history.

But, as you may perhaps suspect, this is yet another example of something AI can quickly produce a text on. Because historians, and archeologists, have written on that too - and quite extensively.

Trying to find niche topics is a losing proposition anyway - and my sense is that there are very few niche topics that do not have a few sources already gobbled up by AI.

It's going to be covered at some point. More realistically, perhaps, AI will be polluted by garbage sooner - the free versions will be useless, and the premium versions that rich students will have access to, will be better. 

I guess to consider here too is people who have disabilities or don't have English as a first language. Being able to properly present their thoughts the way they want is great here.

But that will not be the way they want, and it will not be their thoughts. Thoughts come, and get structured, by the necessity to find the language, the turn of phrase, that can imperfectly convey the myriads of meaning you wish to impart on the amorphous reality. It will be the way an AI tells them is the way they want. Rather than work on language acquisition - which I recognize is hard - they will simply run it through the AI. Which is something I have seen.

As for people with disabilities, it's a very hard conversation to have. At some point, a BA in history isn't really about acquiring facts, or rather, it's only partially about acquiring facts. People who work in the field of history, or history-adjacent fields, will not be expected to simply have a command of past events. They have to think about the way to convey a sense of the past, to structure it in a narrative, whether it is in an heritage evaluation, a ministerial report, a museum pannel, etc. It's a core skill.

There are all sorts of linguistic disabilities. Some of them simply require more time from the student to ensure the letters or syllables are in their proper place - for which there are university resources, and accommodations. But if your linguistic disabilities are such that expressing your ideas with written words is near-impossible, *and you want to get a good grade*, maybe consider a different field. There is no shame in it.

And that's really the rub: students want to get the good grade - they want the grade to reflect the idea they have of themselves, and of their circumstances. That they get the A, because it is appropriate to the effort they put in, and the difficulties they faced, and the virtue they exhibit. I have to work very hard to dissociate their worth as a person, the efforts they made, from the result - which is the only thing I can judge. It is a perverse reversal, but not an unexpected one, that sees them wanting the grade, because they think it will reflect on who they are - and thus, the recourse to AI.

It used to be that many cheaters came from B+ students, who couldn't cope with the fact that they thought of themselves as A students. Other cheaters were often slackers who didn't want to put in the effort, and simply sought a passing grade. But the strange thing now, is that the cheaters who don't want to put in the effort, are ALSO seeking the validation of a higher grade. 

Sounds like you're saying use of English is a key part of how you judge?

Of course. Well, French, in my case, now that I have returned to Canada.

If mods think this conversation rather belongs to the AI thread, feel free to move it.

[Jacob]

If mods think this conversation rather belongs to the AI thread, feel free to move it.

The moderation here is not that strict 

Besides, if we were to try to organize the threads to be more on topic that would be a herculean task, beyond the capacity of our current staff. Maybe using AI would make it easier...?

[Jacob]

Somewhat on the AI and academics topic - just saw a reddit topic for a local college where students are complaining about instructors obviously using AI to mark their assignments, giving non-sense feedback and just upgrading their marks if they question the feedback.

It seems incredibly dispiriting to be working a whole semester on a project and then get nonsense feedback.

[Sheilbh]

I was actually thinking of starting a thread on academia/higher education - particularly in the US because it just seems incredibly grim on so many levels right now.

[Jacob]

I was actually thinking of starting a thread on academia/higher education - particularly in the US because it just seems incredibly grim on so many levels right now.

Seems like a good topic.

[garbon]

I saw UCLA won a case versus Trump.

[Sheilbh]

Yeah that's part of it - but also just the number of courses that seem to be getting slashed everywhere. The whole sector just seems in total crisis/meltdown.

[Valmy]

Yeah that's part of it - but also just the number of courses that seem to be getting slashed everywhere. The whole sector just seems in total crisis/meltdown.

The whole situation has always been a bit of a mystery to me. I worked at UT Austin from 2004 until 2014 and things were clearly pretty grim. Older staff would often wax eloquently about the good old days in the 1970s and 1980s when salaries and benefits were just much higher (by the standards of the time anyway). So many academics were now contract workers. It just seemed like everybody's careers were going to shit in that arena. Yet somehow tuition was higher than ever and bright shiny buildings kept being built. It was a weird place where things never seemed to make sense.

The whole academic system feels that way. An industry that is worth untold billions yet somehow seems impoverished and unable to sustain itself. Employees and professors are having their pay and prestige evaporate away. Students are given ridiculously high tuitions. It is like somehow everybody is getting screwed...I just don't get it. Now I am told this is entirely because of the bloated administrations but having been a part of the administrative staff we didn't exactly feel like that we had cushy jobs everybody wanted.

Seems like this whole sector was headed to a crisis point. Not surprising it hit the iceberg under President dumbass.

[Tamas]

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2025/aug/18/rachel-reeves-stamp-duty-property-tax-council-tax


What jumped out at me immediately is that the stamp duty replacement tax would be on sales of property to owner-occupiers. If this is going to be higher than stamp duty than it will further help buy to rent people to outbid people looking for a home to live in.

[HVC]

Why would a tax disincentivize home ownership specifically? Seems like odd reasoning.

[Sheilbh]

Landlords (or multiple property owners) pay an extra surcharge on top of stamp duty. So the owner occupier is the base rate.

[Tamas]

This is horrendous:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/aug/20/family-in-fear-after-tommy-robinson-shares-video-of-black-man-with-white-granddaughters