Brexit and the waning days of the United Kingdom

[garbon]

How does this work?

I was looking at buy a ticket to somewhere outside London. At first I put in my home station to see what it would say even though I know there are no direct trains. Sure enough it suggested Elizabeth line to Paddington.

I then decided to try train directly from Paddington figuring I can pay for the Elizabeth line separately on contactless.

Train Paddington to destination ticket vs. including Elizabeth line ticket was £5 more.

Why would GWR charge more for less line usage?

[Tamas]

How does this work?

I was looking at buy a ticket to somewhere outside London. At first I put in my home station to see what it would say even though I know there are no direct trains. Sure enough it suggested Elizabeth line to Paddington.

I then decided to try train directly from Paddington figuring I can pay for the Elizabeth line separately on contactless.

Train Paddington to destination ticket vs. including Elizabeth line ticket was £5 more.

Why would GWR charge more for less line usage?

It's best not to dwell on such things.

[garbon]

[Josquius]

Are you geographically closer to where you're going?

That is funny.

The price of using the gates at Paddington?

[Sheilbh]

Yeah I remember reading somewhere that in total there's 55 million different types of tickets in the UK given all the permutations - which feels a little excessive. I think there was a plan to simplify the regulations and simplify that (which wouldn't really necessarily change the average prices or revenue), which I imagine has got nowhere.

The price of using the gates at Paddington?

The biggest con on that is the Heathrow Express which is quicker than the Piccadilly or Liz line but wildly expensive. I think it basically exists by conning tourists now

Separately interesting obituary - can't help but admire his actions in Sierra Leone (even if they broke the international arms embargo - which sounds as useful in this case as the one in Bosnia ), but very much a post-colonial - emphasis on colonial - Foreign Office life. Also from what I understand of the Foreign Office, joining as a clerical officer at 19 and ending up as High Commissioner is pretty extraordinary:

Peter Penfold obituary
Controversial British diplomat who fell foul of the Foreign Office over the Sandline affair but was hailed as a hero in Sierra Leone
Thursday October 05 2023, 12.01am, The Times

In May 1997 Sierra Leone's defence chief cut his soldiers' meagre rice rations while leaving those of his officers untouched. He thus triggered an extraordinary chain of events that turned Peter Penfold, Britain's high commissioner, into a national hero in the west African country but persona non grata back in London.

The soldiers mutinied and forced Ahmad Tejan Kabbah, Sierra Leone's first democratically elected president, into exile in neighbouring Guinea. The mutineers then joined forces with the rebels of the Revolutionary United Front (RUF), who had been waging war elsewhere in the country since 1991. Together they brought mayhem and terror to Freetown, the capital.

Penfold, a wiry chain-smoker and devout Christian who had been in his post scarcely two months, was from the outset determined that Kabbah should be reinstated. Recalling how the rebels had chopped off peoples' hands the previous year for daring to vote, he was "fully committed to the struggle to ensure that this fledgling democracy did not wither and perish".

He convened talks with the coup leaders at his residence, demanding they leave their machine guns outside his dining room lest they scratch the table. He persuaded the rebels to stop shelling the Mammy Yoko hotel, where 800 civilians were sheltering, with a bogus threat to call in US marines. He organised the evacuation of 2,700 foreigners on a US warship. The Foreign and Commonwealth Office ordered him to leave too, though he wanted to stay.

Penfold spent the next ten months beside Kabbah in Conakry, Guinea's capital, striving to ensure that he continued to be seen as Sierra Leone's legitimate president at home and abroad.

He rented a disused Chinese restaurant to house Kabbah's government-in-exile. He then helped it run a refugee programme and send representatives to international meetings (and a message of condolence to the Queen when the Princess of Wales was killed). They smuggled money and food to Kabbah's supporters in Sierra Leone and set up a clandestine radio station, Radio Democracy, at Freetown's airport, which was held by a west African peacekeeping force.

The following spring, that force ousted the rebels and Kabbah returned with Penfold to a hero's welcome. Britain's standing in its former colony had never been higher. "It was an historic day for Africa, the first time ever that a democratic government which had been deposed in a coup was restored. We all felt very pleased with ourselves," Penfold said. But his masters back in London took a different view.

The previous December Kabbah had, with Penfold's knowledge, contracted Sandline International, a British mercenary company founded by Lieutenant-Colonel Tim Spicer, to provide 30 tonnes of arms to loyalist forces in Sierra Leone. This appeared to breach a UN arms embargo that made it illegal to supply arms to Sierra Leone's warring factions.

Penfold was summoned home. Far from being congratulated, he was questioned under caution by HM Customs and Exercise. He argued that Foreign Office ministers knew of the deal, and that he did not believe the embargo applied to Sierra Leone's legitimate government.

Customs and Excise dropped the case, but Robin Cook, then the foreign secretary, ordered an independent inquiry. The subsequent Legg report cleared ministers of wrongdoing but said that Penfold had failed to report his contacts with Sandline "promptly and efficiently", and had given the company "a degree of approval which he had no authority to do". He was reprimanded, and was also subjected to a four-hour televised grilling by the foreign affairs select committee.

As Penfold was being interrogated in London, and journalists besieged his home in Abingdon, thousands of demonstrators took to the streets of Freetown to support him. They held up banners proclaiming "God bless Penfold tenfold" and "Penfold saviour of democracy". When he arrived back in Freetown he was carried through the streets by jubilant crowds and awarded the title of honorary "paramount chief" — an honour previously conferred only on Queen Elizabeth and Prince Philip. But his career was irretrievably damaged.

He was overruled by London when, in the face of a renewed threat from the RUF, he opposed a second evacuation of expats from Freetown in December 1998: he believed the evacuation merely encouraged the rebels, who proceeded to ransack Freetown and slaughter thousands of civilians. He was not allowed to attend the Lomé peace negotiations because, he suspected, he opposed any power-sharing arrangement. His request to extend his posting was denied. He subsequently applied, unsuccessfully, for 16 other jobs in the diplomatic service.

After four decades, during which he composed a song for each of the many countries he served in, he left the Foreign Office and became a conflict adviser at the Department for International Development for a year. "Looking back, it was a fantastic career. It was just a little bit sour at the end," he said.

Peter Alfred Penfold was not a stereotypical Oxbridge-educated diplomat. He was born in Norfolk in 1944, his mother having been evacuated from wartime London. His father worked for the British Overseas Airways Corporation. He was raised in Carshalton, Surrey (now south London), and educated at Sutton Grammar School. He took odd jobs as a laundry attendant, hospital porter and butcher before joining the foreign service as a clerical officer in 1963. One of his first tasks was to fill the coal scuttles in its King Charles Street headquarters.

His first posting was to Bonn. As a Queen's Scout, he ran a cub pack for diplomats' sons from the embassy's canteen. He spent two years in Kaduna, Nigeria, where his "love affair" with Africa began. He then became a "floater", helping out in British missions throughout Latin America when required.

He went to Mexico City during the 1970 World Cup, oversaw the refurbishment of the ambassador's residence in Ecuador, spent several weeks in Uruguay after the ambassador was kidnapped, and organised an evacuation from the Caribbean island of St Vincent after a volcano erupted.

He met his first wife, Margaret, in St Vincent, but delayed their wedding for a month when asked to fly to Canberra at short notice because the high commission's passport officer was said to be dying. He arrived to find the officer was perfectly well.

Back in London Penfold turned down a job in No 10 with Edward Heath's new European Commission secretariat because he and his wife were busy renovating a house in Putney. They had four children — Deborah, a primary teacher, Ian, a surveyor, Catherine, a geneticist, and Andrew, a commander in the Australian navy. They divorced in 1984.

Penfold was ambitious, though, so he applied to learn a hard language. He was assigned Amharic, the language of Ethiopia, and in 1975 was posted to Addis Ababa, where he monitored the Organisation of African Unity and kept tabs on the war in neighbouring Eritrea.

In that first role he had a door slammed in his face by Robert Mugabe. In the second he smuggled Eritrean informants into the embassy in the boot of his car. He also witnessed the "Red Revolution" in which Mengistu Haile Mariam seized power from Emperor Haile Selassie and moved Ethiopia into the Soviet camp.

In 1984 he was posted to Uganda as deputy high commissioner, and scored a diplomatic victory while his boss was on leave by persuading Milton Obote, the president, to attend the high commission's annual Queen's birthday party for the first time. Weeks later there was a coup and Obote fled the country. Penfold organised yet another evacuation — of 2,000 westerners to Kenya by road. He also smuggled a Ugandan journalist through roadblocks to Entebbe airport in his car boot, and was appointed OBE.

In 1991 he was appointed governor of the British Virgin Islands. There he helped develop the islands as an offshore financial centre, battled the rampant drugs trade and learnt to fly. He also married his second wife, Celia, a Trinidadian whom he had met when she was working for the World Bank in Uganda.

Penfold was then offered the Sierra Leone job. Though technically a step down, he accepted because it took him back to his beloved Africa. He put his Land Rover on a freighter from Tilbury docks to Senegal, then drove the last 1,200 miles to Freetown. There he installed two parrots in his residence, and told Kabbah how nice it was to serve in a peaceful African country after his stints in Nigeria, Ethiopia and Uganda. Six weeks later those disgruntled soldiers launched their coup.

Penfold believed he was treated harshly by the Foreign Office over the arms-for-Africa affair, and was disappointed to receive no recognition for his work in Sierra Leone.

In retirement he wrote a memoir, Atrocities, Diamonds and Diplomacy, and dedicated much of his time to supporting Sierra Leonean charities. He twice brought choirs from a school for the blind on tours of Britain, and their repertoire included a song he wrote about their country, My West African Home.

He also returned regularly to Freetown and was greatly amused by a display in the city's museum that had a mannequin dressed in his paramount chief's robes and clutching an antiquated mobile phone.

Peter Penfold, diplomat, was born on February 27, 1944. He died of cancer on October 1, 2023, aged 79

[garbon]

Are you geographically closer to where you're going?

That is funny.

The price of using the gates at Paddington?

Nope, I live further away from the destination. And given I'd have to transfer lines at Paddington - shouldn't be any difference.

I did just buy a ticket Liverpool Street to Cambridge for class and that did what one would expect, £5 cheaper on Greater Anglia if I don't add-on the Elizabeth line leg of the journey.

[garbon]

The price of using the gates at Paddington?

The biggest con on that is the Heathrow Express which is quicker than the Piccadilly or Liz line but wildly expensive. I think it basically exists by conning tourists now

It has one other purpose. When the Elizabeth line goes down the day you need to get to Heathrow.

[mongers]

How does this work?

I was looking at buy a ticket to somewhere outside London. At first I put in my home station to see what it would say even though I know there are no direct trains. Sure enough it suggested Elizabeth line to Paddington.

I then decided to try train directly from Paddington figuring I can pay for the Elizabeth line separately on contactless.

Train Paddington to destination ticket vs. including Elizabeth line ticket was £5 more.

Why would GWR charge more for less line usage?

I'm not getting that, I tried Paddington to BRI, saturday out, Monday back 71quid offpeak return, then to that journey I added a bond street addition along the elizabeth line, that add 5-6 quid more.

Pricing here, PAD to BRI:
https://traintimes.org.uk/london+paddington/bri/10:00/2023-10-07/15:00/2023-10-09

And BDS to BRI:
https://traintimes.org.uk/bond+street/bri/10:00/2023-10-07/15:00/2023-10-09

[Tonitrus]

How does this work?

I was looking at buy a ticket to somewhere outside London. At first I put in my home station to see what it would say even though I know there are no direct trains. Sure enough it suggested Elizabeth line to Paddington.

I then decided to try train directly from Paddington figuring I can pay for the Elizabeth line separately on contactless.

Train Paddington to destination ticket vs. including Elizabeth line ticket was £5 more.

Why would GWR charge more for less line usage?

Sounds like the rail version of a flight that includes a layover...with the layover being where you'd actually want to go...being cheaper than a direct flight.  With airlines apparently cracking down on people just staying at said layover and not continuing flight.

[Maladict]

With airlines apparently cracking down on people just staying at said layover and not continuing flight.

That doesn't work. You won't be getting your checked luggage back without a hefty fine and you're voiding your return ticket.

[garbon]

With airlines apparently cracking down on people just staying at said layover and not continuing flight.

That doesn't work. You won't be getting your checked luggage back without a hefty fine and you're voiding your return ticket.

It does work and is a thing that some people do.

https://jacksflightclub.com/travel-hub/what-is-hidden-city-airfare-ticketing

But yes, generally shouldn't bring checked luggage unless known your luggage isn't checked all the way through.

[garbon]

I'm not getting that, I tried Paddington to BRI, saturday out, Monday back 71quid offpeak return, then to that journey I added a bond street addition along the elizabeth line, that add 5-6 quid more.

Pricing here, PAD to BRI:
https://traintimes.org.uk/london+paddington/bri/10:00/2023-10-07/15:00/2023-10-09

And BDS to BRI:
https://traintimes.org.uk/bond+street/bri/10:00/2023-10-07/15:00/2023-10-09

I don't think it is all trains but I just checked again accounting for the exact same trains out of Paddington (with and without the Elizabeth line), I'd pay 5 pounds more for a journey without Elizabeth line leg included in the journey.

[garbon]

Okay actually even stranger. My price goes up by 18 pounds if I correctly put in my Elizabeth line station as starting point rather than my starting point is my train station (which doesn't have a connection to the Elizabeth line you have to walk between them).

This is on a 2 for 1 railcard mind you, but what is that?

[mongers]

Okay actually even stranger. My price goes up by 18 pounds if I correctly put in my Elizabeth line station as starting point rather than my starting point is my train station (which doesn't have a connection to the Elizabeth line you have to walk between them).

This is on a 2 for 1 railcard mind you, but what is that?

At your age, likely your only option is the two together railcard:
https://www.twotogether-railcard.co.uk/
So a third off if you often travel with a friend/family member.

But as Shelf said further up the thread, there's just a baffling range of tickets; I have stations I use that when they're just one stop on from another ticket/journey of mine can cost anything from £7.00 to minus 75p.

edit:
Full details of UK railcards here,  apparently there are nine of them:

https://www.railcard.co.uk/about-railcards/

[garbon]

Sorry the 'what is that' was more still bafflement at the pricing. As including a station I can't possibly travel from first (as you can only wake between it and Elizabeth line) making it cheaper is whack.

I know what a 2 for 1 is as my husband and I use all the time.