Brexit and the waning days of the United Kingdom

Started by Josquius, February 20, 2016, 07:46:34 AM

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How would you vote on Britain remaining in the EU?

British- Remain
12 (12%)
British - Leave
7 (7%)
Other European - Remain
21 (21%)
Other European - Leave
6 (6%)
ROTW - Remain
34 (34%)
ROTW - Leave
20 (20%)

Total Members Voted: 98

Admiral Yi

Quote from: Zanza on June 15, 2022, 01:19:26 PMArticle 3 provides for non-discrimination, Article 31 makes it legal to enter by e.g. boat or any other means
Article 26 and 28 mean that refugees should be able to travel
26 says refugees are free to move around the receiving country once they are there.

28 says refugees should be granted travel papers that allow them to leave the receiving country.

31 says refugees should not be penalized for arriving illegally (presumably without the required travel documents) if they arrived directly from a country in which thy face risk of persecution.

None of these say refugees get to travel through one or more countries in which they do not face persecution in order to present a claim at a country of their choice.

Sheilbh

The whole Geidt resignation is looking weirder and weirder now. The letters have been released and the key section of his which gives a detail about the commercial thing is:
QuoteThis week, however, I was tasked to offer a view about the Government's intention to consider measures which risk a deliberate and purposeful breach of the Ministerial Code. This request has placed me in an impossible and odious position. My informal response on Monday was that you and any other Minister should justify openly your position vis-a-vis the Code in such circumstances. However, the idea that a Prime Minister might to any degree be in the business of deliberately breaching his own Code is an affront. A deliberate breach, or even an intention to do so, would be to suspend the provisions of the Code to suit a politcal end. This would make a mockery not only of respect for the Code but licence the suspension of its provisions in governing the conduct of Her Majesty's Ministers. I can have no part in this.

Apparently it was over the government considering trying to keep tariffs on Chinese steel even though it might breach WTO rules (which was a policy previously backed by Labour as well) - which doesn't make me that angry, unlike everything else. It's a bit like when Gavin Williamson was fired as Defence Secretary for leaking the decision about Huawei - on the one hand a dreadful minister was fired, on the other hand I'm not entirely sure it was wrong to leak it.

I suspect Geidt was just looking for a pretext at this point given that he hasn't resigned over any of the other issues. But also I can't quite work out why he would have been consulted on the Chinese steel tariff point. Apparently this was raised by the press with the Number 10 spokesman who weren't able to explain it. Geidt's role was to advise on conduct of individual ministers. He's not a lawyer and he's not there to advise on policy, so it seems weird that he was asked for a view on the legality of a government policy (and if that's the case was he also asked, say, about the protocol bill).

It's just all very strange. Lots of questions and I imagine lots of digging for journalists to get into :hmm:
Let's bomb Russia!

Sheilbh

:lol: Possibly the least helpful line the Tory candidate in Wakefield could've taken - and a real escalating quickly moment. Asked about the previous Tory MP being convicted of sexually assaulting teenage boys, his line was that he was just a bad apple (okay) and we still trust GPs even after Harold Shipman killed 250 of his patients (wut? :blink:):
https://twitter.com/tony_diver/status/1537439707818209280?s=21&t=SxdS3SfyODjIMamp6qJ3Yg
Let's bomb Russia!

mongers

Quote from: Sheilbh on June 16, 2022, 10:06:21 AM:lol: Possibly the least helpful line the Tory candidate in Wakefield could've taken - and a real escalating quickly moment. Asked about the previous Tory MP being convicted of sexually assaulting teenage boys, his line was that he was just a bad apple (okay) and we still trust GPs even after Harold Shipman killed 250 of his patients (wut? :blink:):
https://twitter.com/tony_diver/status/1537439707818209280?s=21&t=SxdS3SfyODjIMamp6qJ3Yg

Well he does have a point of sorts, that's if you ignore the bored Twitmob having around to jump on slip of the tongue.
"We have it in our power to begin the world over again"

Sheilbh

Quote from: mongers on June 16, 2022, 10:43:41 AMWell he does have a point of sorts, that's if you ignore the bored Twitmob having around to jump on slip of the tongue.
In a very loose sense. And it doesn't seem like it was a slip of the tongue because he used this line in multiple interviews (the first time all campaign the Tories have let the media near their candidate) - so presumably they workshopped the line and thought it was a good line :lol:
Let's bomb Russia!

Josquius

Quote from: Admiral Yi on June 16, 2022, 08:00:07 AM
Quote from: Zanza on June 15, 2022, 01:19:26 PMArticle 3 provides for non-discrimination, Article 31 makes it legal to enter by e.g. boat or any other means
Article 26 and 28 mean that refugees should be able to travel
26 says refugees are free to move around the receiving country once they are there.

28 says refugees should be granted travel papers that allow them to leave the receiving country.

31 says refugees should not be penalized for arriving illegally (presumably without the required travel documents) if they arrived directly from a country in which thy face risk of persecution.

None of these say refugees get to travel through one or more countries in which they do not face persecution in order to present a claim at a country of their choice.

There's no guarantee of the right to be able to this I think (I could be wrong. Not going to trawl the whole convention) but certainly except for the irrelevant to UK Dublin regulation there's no law to the contrary either.
It has been legally found the first safe country stuff is bollocks in the UK.

https://freemovement.org.uk/refugees-claim-asylum-upon-arrival-first-safe-country/

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Sheilbh

Slightly surreal story - basically the owner of the Telegraph who has made bllions in his lifetime faces jail because he says he can't access his own money because it's all locked up in trusts:
QuoteFrederick Barclay 'terrified' of jail after judge rules he must stand trial
Owner of Telegraph Media Group could face prison for his failure to pay £50m in divorce battle
Jane Martinson
@janemartinson
Thu 16 Jun 2022 20.18 BST

Sir Frederick Barclay, whose fortune was estimated as £6bn as recently as May, faces the possibility of being sent to prison at the age of 87 after a high court judge ruled that he must stand trial for the non-payment of part of a £100m divorce settlement.

The court heard that the owner of the Telegraph Media Group had considered applying for legal aid to fight a divorce battle with his wife of 34 years.


Barclay, who still owns half of the private island of Brecqhou and whose family sold the Ritz Hotel for an estimated £800m in 2020, is now "terrified" of being sent to prison for his failure to pay the £50m due to his wife last June.

He was also separately and additionally ordered to pay his wife's legal costs, which are said to be approaching £500,000. The court was told that Barclay's nephews, the sons of his twin brother Sir David Barclay, are paying for his legal fees but not those of his wife.

In evidence, Stewart Leech QC, for Hiroko Barclay, said the legal playing field was not level. "She owes her lawyers over half a million pounds and Sir Frederick Barclay owes his lawyers virtually nothing."

Earlier this year, the court was told that Barclay had also "unilaterally halved" the maintenance payment of £60,000 awarded to his wife each month.

The court heard that Barclay, who started life as a painter and decorator alongside his brother, cannot access his fortune, which is held in a complex series of trusts.

Neither Barclay nor his brother, David, who died last year, were beneficiaries of the family trusts, which is essentially divided between Barclay's daughter, Amanda, and three of David Barclay's sons.

In the high court hearing, it was stated that Barclay said that he had no control over the complex trust structure. "I haven't got anything," he said.

Both Lady Barclay, 78, and Barclay appeared in court via an online link on Thursday but the judge ordered that both parties would have to appear in person in the three-day hearing due in July as non-payment is a quasi-criminal offence.

Lawyers representing Barclay have indicated that he will mount a defence to Lady Barclay's application.

Scot Young, a property boss, was one of the few men to be committed to prison for contempt of court resulting from the non-payment of a divorce order when he was jailed for for six months in 2013.

In March, the court was told that Barclay had been evicted from his home. His lawyer, Charles Howard QC, told the court that "he's got no money and his bank statements ... show that."

Sir Jonathan Cohen, who is hearing the case, criticised Barclay in his final order last May, saying he had behaved in a "reprehensible" fashion during the dispute after having sold his luxury yacht and "applied the equity for his own use" in breach of orders.


During Thursday's hearing, the Guardian applied for documents in the complex case to be released to the media before the committal hearing, which was largely successful.
Let's bomb Russia!

Richard Hakluyt

The perfect way to avoid tax, don't have any money  :lol:

Sheilbh

Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on June 16, 2022, 03:58:02 PMThe perfect way to avoid tax, don't have any money  :lol:
I remember that question on day 1 of Equity and Trusts in law school - how did a set of laws that emerged from courts delivering principles based justice become mainly a tool for tax evasion :lol:
Let's bomb Russia!

HVC

Is the answer lawyers? It's lawyers right?  :D
Being lazy is bad; unless you still get what you want, then it's called "patience".
Hubris must be punished. Severely.


Admiral Yi

Quote from: Josquius on June 16, 2022, 01:00:06 PMIt has been legally found the first safe country stuff is bollocks in the UK.

https://freemovement.org.uk/refugees-claim-asylum-upon-arrival-first-safe-country/



"It has been legally found the first country stuff is bollocks in the UK" is not precisely what your link says.

Josquius

Quote from: Admiral Yi on June 16, 2022, 09:04:47 PM
Quote from: Josquius on June 16, 2022, 01:00:06 PMIt has been legally found the first safe country stuff is bollocks in the UK.

https://freemovement.org.uk/refugees-claim-asylum-upon-arrival-first-safe-country/



"It has been legally found the first country stuff is bollocks in the UK" is not precisely what your link says.

That sums it up into a basic layman's one sentence however.
There's no legal basis for the first safe country stuff people claim.
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Admiral Yi

Quote from: Josquius on June 17, 2022, 01:26:13 AMThat sums it up into a basic layman's one sentence however.
There's no legal basis for the first safe country stuff people claim.

Well no.  That's not how it reads to me.

garbon

"I've never been quite sure what the point of a eunuch is, if truth be told. It seems to me they're only men with the useful bits cut off."
I drank because I wanted to drown my sorrows, but now the damned things have learned to swim.