Brexit and the waning days of the United Kingdom

[Josquius]

From my experience the civil services recruitment system is quite a mess.
Obsessed with making things fair and measurable with loads of strict guidelines and specifically set out correct methods to answer questions over making actual good decisions.
Kind of like the English education system really.

It is interesting however that in recent years the civil service have appeared to be a font of competence next to the government

[Tamas]

For supposedly the number of immigrants being a problem, they sure are ignored in news reporting. I am sure the are millions like me who have not seen their families in well over a year, and the prospect to see them being in jeopardy over the rising case numbers and the country colour coding
But the press only focuses on OMG MAH SUMMER HOLIDAY IS RUINED. This, I guess, is how you know you live in a rich country.

[Josquius]

Yep. Ive seen a few articles popping up with some random beautician going "this holiday was everything to me! It's been such a rough year!".
I mean. Yeah. We know. You don't know the half of it.

Though for you Tamas it shouldn't be so bad right? This EU vaccine thing covers EU citizens I think, the only drawback will be staying at home for 10 days when you return?

[Tamas]

Yep. Ive seen a few articles popping up with some random beautician going "this holiday was everything to me! It's been such a rough year!".
I mean. Yeah. We know. You don't know the half of it.

Though for you Tamas it shouldn't be so bad right? This EU vaccine thing covers EU citizens I think, the only drawback will be staying at home for 10 days when you return?

Yes, which is fine of course, but I have growing concern it was a mistake to take second half of August off for the trips home. I thought by then all should be back to normal but now the UK seem bound to become the first European hotspot of the Indian (sorry, Delta) variant, so by August we might be facing restrictions on entering the EU.

[garbon]

For supposedly the number of immigrants being a problem, they sure are ignored in news reporting. I am sure the are millions like me who have not seen their families in well over a year, and the prospect to see them being in jeopardy over the rising case numbers and the country colour coding
But the press only focuses on OMG MAH SUMMER HOLIDAY IS RUINED. This, I guess, is how you know you live in a rich country.

Yep

[Sheilbh]

From my experience the civil services recruitment system is quite a mess.
Obsessed with making things fair and measurable with loads of strict guidelines and specifically set out correct methods to answer questions over making actual good decisions.
Kind of like the English education system really.

Yeah - I've mentioned before but when I was changing jobs I applied for a civil service legal job which sounded very interesting. The time from closing applications to starting interviews was three months. By that point I'd already found and accepted another job. I'm 90% sure it was set up like that so they could say they looked at external candidates but sadly only internal candidates proceeded/were available.

It is interesting however that in recent years the civil service have appeared to be a font of competence next to the government

Maybe? Their job is to deliver the government's plans so it's not always easy to separate them out. I think on Brexit the civil service has been competent and one of the issues was the difference between politicians theories and reality which I think they probably managed quite well.

But on covid I don't think the state comes out of it very well.

It's interesting that he mentioned procurement because I've worked on government procurements and they are a nightmare. It's unbelievably inefficient and expensive. But I can well believe that senior civil servants basically don't think it's a serious issue worth thinking about. Defence procurement is obviously the worst because if you're bidding for a multi-billion pound contract then for bidding companies it's worth going to court over every decision and every drafting change you can.

For supposedly the number of immigrants being a problem, they sure are ignored in news reporting. I am sure the are millions like me who have not seen their families in well over a year, and the prospect to see them being in jeopardy over the rising case numbers and the country colour coding
But the press only focuses on OMG MAH SUMMER HOLIDAY IS RUINED. This, I guess, is how you know you live in a rich country.

Yeah agreed.

I mean we never closed borders and still haven't really fixed the border issue (neither has the rest of Europe - it does seem to be a bit of an issue we all have). There's evidence that Poles going home for Christmas seeded the alpha (English) variant in Poland, likewise the reason we're the hotspot for the delta (Indian) variant is because we never even imposed proper quarantine on people coming from India.

Yes, which is fine of course, but I have growing concern it was a mistake to take second half of August off for the trips home. I thought by then all should be back to normal but now the UK seem bound to become the first European hotspot of the Indian (sorry, Delta) variant, so by August we might be facing restrictions on entering the EU.

I think by then it should be fine - the vaccines work against the delta variant and my mid-to-late august everyone should have the vaccine - although it might be worth checking when you'll get your second dose because I think it needs to be two doses plus two weeks.

Also it is worth noting that amber list etc only really effects you coming back to the UK. Each European country has their own rules on entry and of the ones I've checked they are all broadly more relaxed than the UK amber list so if you have the vaccine or negative PCR test then you can go to Portugal or Greece or Spain etc regardless of what list they're on. I'm not sure about Hungary or Poland.

[garbon]

Yes, which is fine of course, but I have growing concern it was a mistake to take second half of August off for the trips home. I thought by then all should be back to normal but now the UK seem bound to become the first European hotspot of the Indian (sorry, Delta) variant, so by August we might be facing restrictions on entering the EU.

I think by then it should be fine - the vaccines work against the delta variant and my mid-to-late august everyone should have the vaccine - although it might be worth checking when you'll get your second dose because I think it needs to be two doses plus two weeks.

Also it is worth noting that amber list etc only really effects you coming back to the UK. Each European country has their own rules on entry and of the ones I've checked they are all broadly more relaxed than the UK amber list so if you have the vaccine or negative PCR test then you can go to Portugal or Greece or Spain etc regardless of what list they're on. I'm not sure about Hungary or Poland.

Yeah, we booked time off for mid-Sept as our optimistic timing that we'd have had our 2nd vaccine + 2 weeks and we'll end up actually vaccinated sooner. However, we haven't booked anything as we're just too unsure about how things will develop at the moment.

Also, I would think at some point even lax offices will get annoyed if their people suddenly can't come back to the office for 10 days because of a holiday they chose to go on.

[Tamas]

Thanks Sheilbh. We'll look into it from the Hungary and Poland angle hopefully they won't require second dose plus two weeks as that would be an issue for my wife. I'll be getting my second shot next week but hers would be an extremely close cut.

[Sheilbh]

Maybe.

It's a huge problem for the 50+% of people who haven't worked from home at all during this pandemic. And the real issue there is government guidance is don't travel to anywhere but the green list - which makes it difficult to fix it because people shouldn't be going anyway. Hopefully all of Europe and North America will be fine by early autumn so people can travel at least there. But this is why we need to help massive global efforts to increase supply of vaccines so that the same will apply to India, Pakistan, Nigeria etc.

But in terms of office jobs - I spoke to a number when I was looking for a change of job and none of them were re-opening their offices at all really until September at the earliest (that may be speeding up now). But I also think every office was planning to move to flex working of 2-3 days per week at home/in the office. So I don't know that they'd have massive issue with people basically working from home for two extra weeks after holiday.

I feel like that would have been an issue 18 months ago when WFH was viewed a little bit more suspiciously (at least in my sector) but now I think it'd probably be okay?

[garbon]

But in terms of office jobs - I spoke to a number when I was looking for a change of job and none of them were re-opening their offices at all really until September at the earliest (that may be speeding up now). But I also think every office was planning to move to flex working of 2-3 days per week at home/in the office. So I don't know that they'd have massive issue with people basically working from home for two extra weeks after holiday.

I feel like that would have been an issue 18 months ago when WFH was viewed a little bit more suspiciously (at least in my sector) but now I think it'd probably be okay?

My company is opening in early August (or at least that is the plan) though no one is going to be coerced to come in. Still, I think eyebrows might raise at, I could come in but I decided to travel to a country that necessitates me self-isolating for 10 days after my return because I wanted a holiday.

[Tamas]

The Cabinet Office minister, Michael Gove, received an alert from the test-and-trace app to say he had come into contact with someone with coronavirus, less than a week after returning from Portugal.

The senior Tory recently returned from Porto, where he had travelled with his son, Will, to support Chelsea in the Champions League final last Saturday. The Cabinet Office confirmed Gove had been alerted by the NHS Covid app.

A spokesperson said:

He has followed Covid-19 regulations and guidance at all times and will continue to do so.

After being notified by test and trace on Thursday, four days after he returned from , Gove had to abandon a meeting with the prime minister, Boris Johnson, and the chancellor, Rishi Sunak, who had been discussing recovery from the pandemic with the leaders of the devolved nations via video link.

Rather than self-isolating for 10 days, Gove will take lateral flow tests each morning for seven days as part of a pilot scheme to measure the testing effectiveness of alternatives to quarantining. As long as participants test negative, they will be able to leave their homes "to carry out essential activity".

They really have no shame, do they? Can people who actually depend on not isolating for their very livelihood and existence can also opt in to this myserious "pilot scheme"?

[Josquius]

Looks like France is letting vaccinated people in. Might be a summer for me afterall.

[Sheilbh]

18 months in and test and trace is still taking 4 days to ping by which point it's meaningless

[The Larch]

Looks like France is letting vaccinated people in. Might be a summer for me afterall.

Spain as well, it has just been announce that starting next monday anyone fully vaccinated can enter test-free.

[Richard Hakluyt]

18 months in and test and trace is still taking 4 days to ping by which point it's meaningless

£37bn IIRC. Meanwhile Vietnam somehow instituted an effective system right from the start. We need to understand why we could not do the same.