Brexit and the waning days of the United Kingdom

[Iormlund]

He is correct in that England seems to be pretty one-dimensional. My own region (which is basically deserted outside the city of Zaragoza itself) outperforms every region in England that is a couple hours away from London.

[The Larch]

That's mostly because London is in a league of its own.

[dps]

I've shared the map that shows how crappy the UK is vs. Europe a lot.

Today I discovered this tool that lets you compare just how screwed up Britain is and how the  the myth of perpetually poor east is bollocks.

It actually shows pretty clearly that the eastern and southern parts of Europe lag considerably behind the western and northern parts. 

[Richard Hakluyt]

That is a fun tool, good find Tyr.

Take a look at all the British regions and then the French ones, it is exactly the same pattern, really rich centre and underperforming regions. Also the differences between French and British GDP per head are almost indistinguishable despite the constant excitement over the different economic models used by each country.

Off to play some more.

[Josquius]

That is a fun tool, good find Tyr.

Take a look at all the British regions and then the French ones, it is exactly the same pattern, really rich centre and underperforming regions. Also the differences between French and British GDP per head are almost indistinguishable despite the constant excitement over the different economic models used by each country.

Off to play some more.

Mostly, but not quite the same.
In the UK the South East is, albeit not on the same stratospheric levels as London, still a clear second place. London overspill at work in outer London.
In France you have to go some way back and then  you have the Lyon and outer-Geneva area.

Regardless France by design has always been a super centralised Paris first, second and third country.  We should both be looking to Germany for inspiration, not France.

I've shared the map that shows how crappy the UK is vs. Europe a lot.

Today I discovered this tool that lets you compare just how screwed up Britain is and how the  the myth of perpetually poor east is bollocks.

It actually shows pretty clearly that the eastern and southern parts of Europe lag considerably behind the western and northern parts. 

Compare the gaps.
In 2000 the difference between Poland and the UK: 13,500
In 2015: 11,400

And that's including London distorting the typical UK figures. If we look at the other side of things in Britain for Wales and Poland the gap goes from 6800 to 2100.
Consider that the rest of the UK outside London is more representative of typical salaries uneducated migrants will be getting (whether in London or out of London) and its pretty clear that in a world without Brexit this situation would be drawing to a close soon anyway.

Poland has gone from 9,300 to 19,800. Romania has gone from  5,200 to 16,500. Estonia 8.200 to 21,600 (making it almost equal with Wales, considering these figures only go to 2015 it is probably richer than a few UK regions by now).

[Richard Hakluyt]

There are a thousand years of history behind the differing structures of Germany, France and England. I prefer the German situation myself as well, but the reasons for London's complete dominance are structural and very difficult to shift. We probably came closest back in the 19th century but not even the industrial revolution, "workshop of the world" and the empire were enough to permanently alter the situation. I think, in the long term, a place like the North-East of England is destined to be one of Europe's poorer regions; it has a small population and a poor location.

[Josquius]

It's per capita though so a small population shouldn't change much. It should help actually if we look to Scandinavia for example.

I can't find it right now but I read an interesting piece the other week on how the BBCs move to Salford has really gotten things started in Manchester.
Talk of moving parliament to the Midlands seems more and more sensible. Even if it's just while Westminster is refurbed I'd imagine it could give quite a boost to wherever it goes even beyond the move back to London.

The government needs to get a move on with HS2 and then hopefully railway nationalisation. We've got to get nested network effects going.

[Tamas]

It's per capita though so a small population shouldn't change much. It should help actually if we look to Scandinavia for example.

I can't find it right now but I read an interesting piece the other week on how the BBCs move to Salford has really gotten things started in Manchester.
Talk of moving parliament to the Midlands seems more and more sensible. Even if it's just while Westminster is refurbed I'd imagine it could give quite a boost to wherever it goes even beyond the move back to London.

The government needs to get a move on with HS2 and then hopefully railway nationalisation. We've got to get nested network effects going.

Ignoring your repeated efforts to ruin the British railway service via nationalisation, I find it refreshing that you do not oppose HS2. The shrilling anti-progress cries around that really wear me down.

[Josquius]

Why would I oppose HS2?

[Tamas]

Lot of leftists seem to

[Josquius]

Lot of leftists seem to

That's far more of a right wing thing. Based around constructing the line involving building in beautiful scenic countryside on the outskirts of London, ruining views and property values in the process. Solidly a NIMBY thing, with a thin veneer of manufactured logical arguments to try and trick people to their side (ala brexit).

Though I do believe the Greens are against it, they're pretty progressive generally but when it comes to their core issue they're quite schizophrenic on whether they support conservative environmentalism or progressive environmentalism.

[Tamas]

Lot of leftists seem to

That's far more of a right wing thing. Based around constructing the line involving building in beautiful scenic countryside on the outskirts of London, ruining views and property values in the process. Solidly a NIMBY thing, with a thin veneer of manufactured logical arguments to try and trick people to their side (ala brexit).

Though I do believe the Greens are against it, they're pretty progressive generally but when it comes to their core issue they're quite schizophrenic on whether they support conservative environmentalism or progressive environmentalism.

I remember the Greens campaigning against it.

And they are not progressive. They are dangerous luddites.

[Duque de Bragança]

NIMBY can unite both the left and right, at least in these parts, cf. Basque Country modernized mixed line to link Iberia with the rest of Europe, or even the new high-speed line SW Bordeaux-Toulouse line.
I don't see why it should not be the case in the UK, which has a higher population density and smaller in area, so better than France for high-speed rail.

[Tamas]

NIMBY can unite both the left and right, at least in these parts, cf. Basque Country modernized mixed line to link Iberia with the rest of Europe, or even the new high-speed line SW Bordeaux-Toulouse line.
I don't see why it should not be the case in the UK, which has a higher population density and smaller in area, so better than France for high-speed rail.

Its about destroying teh environment, and causing discomfort to people with properties in the way of the future line.

[celedhring]

Here the left and the right loved high-speed train. Loved it way too much in fact.